Thinking you have lost me... I know, My loss...

[Magnum Man]

1st to other newbies... there is a tremendous amount of information & knowledge on this forum... but beware... these also a ton of ideologically twisted info, shoveled in here as well...

if we wanted to duplicate nature ( I mean wholly duplicate nature )... things like population densities, only putting fish that would be in the same water, in the same bio, with each other... things are great... how many times have you gone fishing, & nothing bites for an hour... well that could be your aquarium... nothing, or maybe one fish...

without getting all "preachy" we are supposed to have dominion over all the animals... take your poodle & put him in natural surroundings... my little dog Teddy ( he's not a poodle ) wouldn't last a day without the air conditioner... I've found the minimum fish of certain species, that you can have in an aquarium to often be complete baloney... yes I have some fish that would totally freak out if there wasn't a school of them... but I also have some fish I've been chastised for, for not having a big enough group, yet in both these cases I had 3 of them ( not 8 ) & they are well adjusted, one of those fish, they are all loners, buying a group on them , IMO, is completely false...

I'm not fan of Glo Fish or Balloon fish, but I honestly wouldn't be afraid to put an African fish with a south American fish, if their water conditions & demeaner were close... & IMO, more thought should go into fish that would cohabitate, & school together rather than filling an aquarium with it's capacity of just one fish variety, if they are schooling fish, I've found that many will school with similar fish & that, to me makes the tank more interesting...

there are extreme members to every aspect of this hobby here, some offer advice that seems biased by how they like to do things... often other options will work too & while lots of us, this is our 1st aquarium, just as many, have years into this hobby & are starting to come back... often the lectures are demeaning & in my case have made me feel dumb... I'm not dumb... thank you for helping me figure out my water... please be easy on the newbies, & let them set up their 10 gallons & take part in this awesome hobby...

remember these are fish... we should respect all life, but they are not humans... we don't know how they feel, or even if they really even have feelings... will still be reading along... must... resist... the urge... to respond...

 

[Wills]

Sorry you feel that way, it is certainly a subjective hobby.

When it comes to their 'feelings', we're not giving out this advice for some kind of personal concern about individual fish around the world as if they are our babies but rather trying to streamline the decision-making process for people and trying to help them avoid making the same mistakes we have made and have seen others here make and also researched and read about their natures and natural situation. We can give the advice and stress the importance of it where necessary but ultimately its just information for you to process and decide how to apply to your tanks.

I also wanted to mention that sometimes written text can come across in the wrong tone or members don't have much time so we type quickly, focus on facts and it comes across bluntly or rude and sometimes thats just part of the nature of the internet.

Wills

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

This made me sad to read, sorry you feel this way. Perhaps if you stuck around longer you'd get to know some of us and pick up on our personalities and idiosyncrasies. You'd come to appreciate that some members have spent a lifetime researching and learning in particular species because they're passionate about the hobby and the creatures they're studying, and that their decades of research and experience has proven that it's not just 'ideological twisted info'.

The wonderful thing about humans is our individuality, we don't all think and feel the same nor do we have to agree all the time. But it is important in my opinion to have a humble attitude, to have the willingness to learn from others and to be open to change.

Many who are brand new to the hobby come here frantic and desperate for help because the so called experts in the shops etc have misled them and given them terrible advice. We help any who want it, kindly and patiently. Something I personally really love about this forum. It's great to watch those newbies gain in knowledge and create wonderful aquariums with beautiful aquascapes and breed their fish. I wish there was a place like this I could have gone to when I first started out in my fishkeeping journey where I could have been encouraged and taught! I certainly could have avoided a lot of heartache and wasted money.

You do you Mr Magnam Man, good day to you sir

 

[AlexT]

Stick around mate. I have been reading some of your threads.

 

[Uberhoust]

I don't feel any sadness over this post, I don't agree with all aspects of it but nor do I disagree with all aspects. I have seen a number of posts, some of my own, where we are describing our points of view. In my opinion, overall the forum members give advice that I believe is beneficial, but as Magnum Man points out, there are also biases and philosophies that come out during the discussions. There is often a gray area between what is scientifically proven, and what is opinion, this is typically the area of contention. There are also degrees of following a concept, no one is suggesting we keep Bettas in 1 litre bowls, but there is some debate whether 5 gallon, 10 gallon, or 20 gallon is the best, ideally, I would suggest 20 gallons would be the best, but I know people keep them successfully in much smaller tanks, this concept goes to stocking, water changes, cycling etc. There needs to be room for alternative points of view and all this post is really doing is stating as much.

In the end we have a common interest, but very different backgrounds, there are bound to be differences in what we perceive to be "proper" care of our charges.

Just my opinion .

 

[jaylach]

I'm sad to see this and truly hope that none of my possible responses contributed. I can't recall seeing any posts that could be considered condescending or insulting in relation to your queries but I doubt that I have seen all your threads. I just don't have the time or inclination to read every new topic that comes up and only view those that seem to grab my direct interest or have zero or only a few responses. I sort of figure that if there has been 10 or more responses the question has probably already been answered.

Yes, many responses are opinion but that is the nature of this type of forum. For instance I am a big advocate for under gravel filtration and many here disagree with my view but I can't recall any time where I've been told that I'm wrong to use. I've had people throw out possible issues but never have I been told to not use.

There are just too many variables involved with an aquarium to be able to give absolute answers in many cases when you can't even directly see the tank. I don't know about site staff but regular users don't get any monetary reward for trying to help others. These people, including myself, attempt to offer help strictly as volunteers. The only reward we get is the occasion where we actually helped someone making us feel good. We are just trying to help because we want to do so. Are we always right? Of course not but we do the best we can according to our experience.

If I have ever come across as insulting or condescending it was in no way intentional and I apologize.

 

[Lcc86]

I'm new to this forum and have been reading along with loads of threads that have little to do with my own "interests" in order to try and gain more knowledge. It's definitely been eye opening, if at times a little confusing when conflicting opinions come up on a particular topic. But that's the nature of humans, and the internet in general, people will always have differing opinions. @Magnum Man I enjoy reading your threads about your plans and progress, you have some fish I could never dream of keeping so I hope you continue to post!

 

[emeraldking]

The only thing I like to add to this thread is: As long as something works for you, it works for you... No one can fight that argument. Keep always in mind that there's not just one good way to maintain a fishtank and fish but there are multiple ways. Members mean well and can give their advice but it's up to you which way works best for you (and your fish of course).

 

[sharkweek178]

When I first started posting here, I found out that some of the ideas I had were not good ones. Sometimes it's harsh to learn that something you really want to do isn't a good idea. I get that. I gave myself a moment of "Yeah well, they don't know everything" but then came to realize something great about this hobby. Whenever you learn that one idea isn't viable, there are always some great alternatives.
There is a lot of bad information out there on the internet. About everything, really. But this hobby seems to have more than its fair share. Anyone with can make a slick looking website or sound like they know what they are talking about in a video. But that doesn't mean they are necessarily credible. Especially when they are selling something. I feel fortunate to have found this site where there are scientists and members with decades of experience. I'm not saying this site is always right and everyone else is usually wrong. But I've found more reliable info here that most of the rest of the internet. (I mostly swear by Seriously Fish. But even then, I found that site through here.)
This place is a good resource. Don't take anyone's word for anything. The only substitute for experience is research and relying on other people's experience. I've found this place to be a good resource for the latter and a good jumping off point for the former. I hope you decide to stick around.

 

[emeraldking]

Anyone with can make a slick looking website or sound like they know what they are talking about in a video. But that doesn't mean they are necessarily credible.

Oh, I can point my finger to a serious number of youtubers with a lot of subscribers that are not credible when I listen to what they say. They sound interesting but are selling nonsense. As a serious fish keeper, it bothers me. But I let it go because to me it seems more that they want to try to be interesting. And yes, there are sites of people about ornamental fish who give so much misinformation. Wether that's because of trying to be interesting or just a lack of knowledge. I do have to admit that when someone is passionate about such fish that he/she is setting up a site or a homepage about it, that I do love the enthusiasm. But enthusiasm can lead to false information as well. For often they're ahead of their own ability.

But there are also people who like to surf along with the hype that's going on and present themselves as wannabee experts. This happens with all hypes that are going on. Trying to create a big name as fast as possible.

 

[sharkweek178]

Oh, I can point my finger to a serious number of youtubers with a lot of subscribers that are not credible when I listen to what they say. They sound interesting but are selling nonsense. As a serious fish keeper, it bothers me. But I let it go because to me it seems more that they want to try to be interesting. And yes, there are sites of people about ornamental fish who give so much misinformation. Wether that's because of trying to be interesting or just a lack of knowledge. I do have to admit that when someone is passionate about such fish that he/she is setting up a site or a homepage about it, that I do love the enthusiasm. But enthusiasm can lead to false information as well. For often they're ahead of their own ability.

But there are also people who like to surf along with the hype that's going on and present themselves as wannabee experts. This happens with all hypes that are going on. Trying to create a big name as fast as possible.

I was watching one channel who would critique tanks that people made videos of. And many of these were awful. Goldfish in 3 gallon tanks, that kind of thing. I stopped watching because I was just getting bummed out them.

 

[emeraldking]

I was watching one channel who would critique tanks that people made videos of. And many of these were awful. Goldfish in 3 gallon tanks, that kind of thing. I stopped watching because I was just getting bummed out them.

I know what you mean. But such people who do it incorrect do get most viewers and subscribers, tbh...

 

[sharkweek178]

I know what you mean. But such people who do it incorrect do get most viewers and subscribers, tbh...

In the defense of this channel, he would criticize most of these tanks. "Oh, that's terrible", that kind of thing. I don't mind enjoying a little cringe about how badly someone did when it comes to, idk, someone cooking or fashion choices. But when it involves living creatures, it's not as much fun. Maybe the value is that people can see what not to do.

 

[Back in the fold]

Do what I do - my own thing and just enjoy The Great TFF Forum ! Life is full of winners and losers and we’re all one of them .

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

we are supposed to have dominion over all the animals...

While this specific statement strikes me as oddly phrased, and carrying the capacity to justify some pretty terrible abuses (not that I would suspect you personally of that in any way shape or form), I think I get what you are saying overall in your post. But read on, and correct me if I am wrong!

There is definitely a TFF way of doing things. And though by no means true for most participants here, it does sometimes seem like the loudest voices are the least tolerant of deviation from said dogma. There are just cultures that build on certain forums.

I have experienced this in a far more extreme way in another hobby of mine where the community is smaller, and so there is really only one game in town for forums. Unfortunately, despite that fact that I consider one of the admins and at least one mod a friend of mine, the culture on that forum (since it's inception decades ago it seems by old posts) is very confrontational, terse, and not welcoming in general. And good luck if you want to introduce new ideas or have a discussion about one of their cherished beliefs! But they don't see it. They wonder why people get pissed and leave so often (sometimes weekly!), or there are so few new folks who stick around, but they can't be the problem! It reminds me of an old saying (cleaned up a bit for public viewing): "If you meet a jerk one day, that's unfortunate. If you run into jerks everyday, you might just be the jerk." But there are clearly those who like their cloistered club, which is fine. It's just unfortunate for the folks who stumble in there hoping to find kind advice and perhaps community.

If you decide to eschew this, one of many forums for aquariums, there are still other ways to interact with folks who share your interests. Local aquarium clubs can be one path. You are in Minnesota, and the Minnesota Aquarium Society is a pretty well established (since 1931) and sizable (nearly 300 active members) society. And if you just wanted to attend the virtual meetings, you don't even need to shell out the $15/yr to become a member (or be in Minnesota for that matter). It's a pretty open and welcoming group, and another avenue to get to share your excitement with other hobbyists.

Whether you give TFF another shot or end up elsewhere, I truly hope you find a community that you can share your evident and considerable passion for this hobby with. Be well!