Thinking you have lost me... I know, My loss...

[Magnum Man]

Sorry, my phone is being stupid today… they also called it the “Rad” Zoo… I can do a link when I get into work tomorrow

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Reptile and amphibian Zoo… in Medford, MN

Oh my goodness, it's in an outlet mall! I 100% want to go there!!!!

Edit: It's only like a half an hour from my farm! I am doing this! Thanks!

 

[Magnum Man]

Here is the link... I've never been there myself yet, but they advertise around here a lot...

Home | Reptile & Amphibian Discovery Zoo

www.theradzoo.com

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Thanks for the link, @Magnum Man !

 

[Alex Kadyshevich]

1st to other newbies... there is a tremendous amount of information & knowledge on this forum... but beware... these also a ton of ideologically twisted info, shoveled in here as well...

if we wanted to duplicate nature ( I mean wholly duplicate nature )... things like population densities, only putting fish that would be in the same water, in the same bio, with each other... things are great... how many times have you gone fishing, & nothing bites for an hour... well that could be your aquarium... nothing, or maybe one fish...

without getting all "preachy" we are supposed to have dominion over all the animals... take your poodle & put him in natural surroundings... my little dog Teddy ( he's not a poodle ) wouldn't last a day without the air conditioner... I've found the minimum fish of certain species, that you can have in an aquarium to often be complete baloney... yes I have some fish that would totally freak out if there wasn't a school of them... but I also have some fish I've been chastised for, for not having a big enough group, yet in both these cases I had 3 of them ( not 8 ) & they are well adjusted, one of those fish, they are all loners, buying a group on them , IMO, is completely false...

I'm not fan of Glo Fish or Balloon fish, but I honestly wouldn't be afraid to put an African fish with a south American fish, if their water conditions & demeaner were close... & IMO, more thought should go into fish that would cohabitate, & school together rather than filling an aquarium with it's capacity of just one fish variety, if they are schooling fish, I've found that many will school with similar fish & that, to me makes the tank more interesting...

there are extreme members to every aspect of this hobby here, some offer advice that seems biased by how they like to do things... often other options will work too & while lots of us, this is our 1st aquarium, just as many, have years into this hobby & are starting to come back... often the lectures are demeaning & in my case have made me feel dumb... I'm not dumb... thank you for helping me figure out my water... please be easy on the newbies, & let them set up their 10 gallons & take part in this awesome hobby...

remember these are fish... we should respect all life, but they are not humans... we don't know how they feel, or even if they really even have feelings... will still be reading along... must... resist... the urge... to respond...

Felt I must support this entry... all the subscribers here mean only well, and have only the very best intentions.
However I sometimes feel the purists see us less purist as barbarians, with no care for our charges.
My 75 gal tank currently houses 1 red tail black shark, 4 red line barbs, and 4 white clouds.
Yet I was castigated for keeping so few red lines together.
The tank works well, none of the inmates look unhappy, I religiously do my weekly waterchange, and monthly filter cleans...yet I somehow manage to have been left feeling guilty.

 

[Magnum Man]

Not even going to pretend I’m smarter than some of the members on here…. But I will almost always challenge the minimum group size that is often repeated as fact around here… yep, when they are fry many fish need strength in numbers… but as they mature, often fish that someone will tell you is a schooling fish would rather be in smaller groups, or become solitary as they mature…

Also often a small group ( smaller than “they” say you should have ) will school with another similar fish, if they really feel the need to

And sometimes the “too small a group” over time realizes it’s the alpha fish in the tank, and after they get used to the tank, they no longer stay in a group

There are fish that really do need to be part of a group, often they are smaller and immature, but as they age, they get along fine in the tank, even if you didn’t buy 20 of them

And there are species that “they say” needs to be in a group, that are really solitary and have no need for similar companions… don’t know if that rumor was started to sell more fish???

Agree that you need to go your own way… I forget the threads, but I can think of two, where a pair of the smarter members offered conflicting information, both stating it as fact

 

[WhistlingBadger]

There are few absolutes in the animal kingdom. Group size really does matter to some fish. Others don't seem to mind smaller groups. It comes down to the species or even the individuals. I've had a few fish that "need to be kept in groups" that completely ignored each other. But other species are clearly not healthy without a lot of friends around.

 

[Magnum Man]

I’ll agree with that… I was told 5 was a too small a group for my tin foil barbs… for the 1st month or two… they were skittish… they would all go into a corner, and dare each other to cross the tank… now 3-4 months later, they still all pretty much hang together, but it’s not unusual to see them swimming separately also, but they are totally comfortable with 5

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Felt I must support this entry... all the subscribers here mean only well, and have only the very best intentions.
However I sometimes feel the purists see us less purist as barbarians, with no care for our charges.
My 75 gal tank currently houses 1 red tail black shark, 4 red line barbs, and 4 white clouds.
Yet I was castigated for keeping so few red lines together.
The tank works well, none of the inmates look unhappy, I religiously do my weekly waterchange, and monthly filter cleans...yet I somehow manage to have been left feeling guilty.

Your prose is on point, and I am enamored with your exquisite elocution! Remember it is they who are troglodytes, and to thine own self be true. It matters not what the corpus decrees as long as you are sure in your unreproachable virtue. Care for your captives well and let their foul words fall where they may!

 

[WhistlingBadger]

You all're usin' some mighty hifalutin' lingo, there.

 

[Lcc86]

Re the minimum size, I had 3 corys (didn't realise at the time that larger groups are preferable), recently got more to bring it up to 10 but the 3 adults pretty much just stick together and never really show much interest in the others, whereas the juveniles are happy moving about alone or in a group. Its an odd dynamic. I also got 12 pygmy corys and the only time I see them all together is when I clean the tank, the rest of the time they're either in smal groups or just doing their own thing. Perhaps they wouldn't be as confident if I had fewer but hard to say.

 

[GaryE]

I see no reason to accept anyone's advice here. I consider it, but if I disagree after thinking about it, I don't feel dumb. Sometimes I'm challenged, or proven wrong, but that's good. People here are generally polite.

If you believe we have dominion over animals, and I believe we are animals that barely have dominion over ourselves on a good day, what does that matter? If we treat other animals well and do our best, it works out. I should be able to tell you what I think as long as I provide back up, and you should do the same.

We're predators. All our fish have been predated, and whether we eat them or nurture them. This week, I am in Central Africa, fishing. The other day I was working beside a small group of African women who were out there to feed their families. I wanted tiny fish in small numbers, so I gave them the fish that appeared in my net I didn't want. They got the barbs, mormyrids, tetras and catfish. They caught some of the fish I was after and gave them to me. I know the fish I gave them were going to to be dried and used as flavouring in stews and such. Even the small aquarium sized fish were going into the pot.

So I asked about the recipes. Lots of possibilities there, just like in the hobby. I don't really want to eat those dishes myself, but they are interesting.

If a member really gets on your nerves, block them. I've done that with one person, and I haven't missed a thing in any of the threads he writes in. There are members who always give wrong advice. There are members who post in the threads and never read what others have said. Why kick yourself out of what is a good spot online?

 

[Wills]

This has grown into a really interesting thread - think maybe some of us need to reflect on how we respond to fellow members and understand everyone is giving it their best, though we do still need to hold each other accountable and share evidence and examples if we think something can be improved.

In terms of numbers though... appreciate people have personal experience but a lot of this has been tested in lab conditions for many species and the welfare and overall health is always better when the fish are kept in greater numbers. Like others have said though - do with that info as you want

Wills

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

I see no reason to accept anyone's advice here. I consider it, but if I disagree after thinking about it, I don't feel dumb.

Yes, but not everyone is as thick skinned, and I've seen you get annoyed when others are spouting crap at people who don't know better than to take it up. This isn't to sound accusatory, more to make the point that helping as many people as possible be successful in their aquatic endeavors does require tact for many to receive the information, and people to step in when poor advice is given - a fictitious example: "Sure you can feed flakes to an Amazon leaf fish, you do you and don't listen to the people who say it's a bad idea!" Of course we also get into squabbles about far more pedantic things as well (guilty here!), but I hope those are also with the same intent of trying to find paths to success too.

If a member really gets on your nerves, block them. I've done that with one person, and I haven't missed a thing in any of the threads he writes in.

Was it me? Guess we'll see.

This has grown into a really interesting thread - think maybe some of us need to reflect on how we respond to fellow members and understand everyone is giving it their best, though we do still need to hold each other accountable and share evidence and examples if we think something can be improved.

I think this is a good exercise for any group that is public facing to run through from time to time. Self-critical evaluation is really important. That said, as I have grown older, metacognition of this sort seems more and more to be one of the most challenging things to request of a person. Additionally, it is often the people who need it least who are most willing to engage in self-reflection about their behavior. @Wills , you are a great example here. I've never seen you be anything but open and lovely to all, but you were the first to suggest the need. Indeed in all liklihood, few if any folks who are in need of this are even apt to read a thread such as this in the first place. Humans are fascinating!

 

[Fishies4Ever]

This is a great thread! I do agree with you there are lots of different opinions on this forum and as much as some of us don’t want to admit, we can’t really ever make a completely natural habitat. If the tank is just a bit to small, the school isn’t quite big enough or the temperature doesn’t change for every season the fish will be fine. They have certain things they know or need when they are born, like that they need a school and their parameter needs but other than that having fish is a pretty open ended hobby. We need to let newbies get their first tank set up even if it isn’t quite perfect to us. I have gotten some great advice on this forum and some not so great advice but we’re all just trying to do what we think is best for our fish.