I need help

[Country joe]

I am now on my eighth day of Dr Tims, my ammonia has been nil for four water tests, my pH has been steady now at 7.5, my two problems are nitrite and nitrate.
For four water tests my nitrite appears stuck at 4 and my nitrates at 80, tomorrow I should be adding fish, but obviously that won't be happening.acoording to instructions in six days time I do a 25 % water change, and I do not add any more ammonia. If I just leave the tank with no fish and no more ammonia will the bacteria starve, I've been told to add a very small amounts of ammonia 5mls till the nitrite drops, but as I said the instructions say not to add, so what do you think would help.
Just leave tank till I do a water change in six days time.
Add 5 mls of ammonia every few days till nitrite drops.
Will stopping ammonia and no fish starve bacteria,
I could be wrong but I think two tanks was in favour of adding small amounts of ammonia. Thanks hopefully this will be my last post on this subject.

 

[Colin_T]

It normally takes 4-6 weeks (sometimes longer) to cycle a filter in an aquarium. It takes about 2-3 weeks for the first group of beneficial bacteria to grow and convert the ammonia into nitrite. Then another 2-3 weeks for the next group to grow and convert nitrite into nitrate.

You don't need to test the water every day, you can check it every couple of days.

Don't bother testing for nitrate until the ammonia and nitrite have both gone up and then come back down to 0ppm. Nitrate test kits read nitrite as nitrate and give you a false reading when there's nitrite in the water.

The beneficial filter bacteria will not starve if there is no ammonia in the water for a week or two. After a few weeks without food, they go dormant.

Do not let the ammonia or nitrite go above 5ppm and preferably keep it around 3ppm. If the levels go above 5ppm, it can stall the cycling process.

The bacteria use KH to grow and if the KH drops too much, the bacteria can stop growing. You can do a big (80-100%) water change any time during the cycling process to get KH back in the water and maybe drop the ammonia or nitrite levels if they get too high.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

 

[Country joe]

Thanks for that Colin

 

[Country joe]

Ive had bother with brown algae, but I'm getting there been cleaning it off my plants, I use my net to catch it up but there will be a few bits floating about, my white filter floss will be covered in this stuff, and you are supposed to change it weekly, it's sitting on top of my filter can I change if I'm cycling the tank?

 

[Essjay]

Yes. The Juwel filter has the floss first in the direction of water flow. Most tanks have it last but Juwel say it's first to collect the big bits floating in the water to stop them going into the sponges. Filter floss doesn't wash well, it goes all shapeless. It's only a tiny part of the total amount of filter media so changing it regularly won't harm a cycling tank nor affect things once the cycle has finished and there are fish in the tank.

You can buy replacement white pads made by Juwel or you can buy filter floss by the metre off a roll from Amazon and eBay or anywhere that sells things for ponds. Just cut it to the same size as a Juwel pad. It's a lot cheaper this way.

 

[Country joe]

Ive had bother with brown algae, but I'm getting there been cleaning it off my plants, I use my net to catch it up but there will be a few bits floating about, my white filter floss will be covered in this stuff, and you are supposed to change it weekly, it's sitting on top of my filter can I change if I'm cycling the tank?

Yes. The Juwel filter has the floss first in the direction of water flow. Most tanks have it last but Juwel say it's first to collect the big bits floating in the water to stop them going into the sponges. Filter floss doesn't wash well, it goes all shapeless. It's only a tiny part of the total amount of filter media so changing it regularly won't harm a cycling tank nor affect things once the cycle has finished and there are fish in the tank.

You can buy replacement white pads made by Juwel or you can buy filter floss by the metre off a roll from Amazon and eBay or anywhere that sells things for ponds. Just cut it to the same size as a Juwel pad. It's a lot cheaper this way.

Yes ibought a big pack of the white pads of ebay there not Juwel big difference in price, they were a bargain, thanks again for helping me, much appreciated.

 

[Country joe]

Should I be Disappointed, did a 40 % water change yesterday and when I tested today nothing has moved.
Ammonia 0
nitrite 4
Nitrate 80
Ph 7.5
I guess it's just a patience game, but I thought with a water change it would have effected the nitrite and nitrate but just the same as before the water change.

 

[MaloK]

if you are adding ammonia as prescribed, It's because it's running,

At this point in a fishless cycle, you will concentrate more on ammonia and nitrite, if your nitrate goes well over 100 ppm small water changes are good, but high nitrates are unlikely to stall the cycle.

 

[wayfareranima]

Worth testing your tap water too, just a suggestion

 

[Country joe]

I spoke to my local fis shop who is excellent, he does not like DrTims method and sees the nitrite sticking a lot he recommends I dose the tank every few days with a small amounts of ammonia 5 mls and it could take 3 weeks to settle down.
Tap water
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Ph 7.5
Phosphate 0.

 

[Country joe]

The shop manager also told me that he has known new tank owners doing Dr Tims when it has not been successful to be totally fed up and completely drain their tanks and start again. Not using Dr Tims.

 

[Ceez]

Unpopular opinion and it'll get some push back.



Get some Seachem Matrix and Stability. Add the fish you want to the tank now. Dose for 7 days with prime and Stability. Don't miss a day. After 7 days test and if you're 0/0/40-ish you're cycled. Do a big water change. If you're not achieving these numbers on your tests dose for another 7 days and test again on the 14th day. Never seen it go past 14 days but doesnt mean it cant just havent seen it personally. I've used this method on numerous tanks, never lost a fish, cycled the tanks and was hunky dory.

 

[Essjay]

@Country joe One of the most important lessons in fish keeping is don't believe anything a shop worker says. Most of them will say anything to make a sale. It is likely that your shop worker wants you to stop using Dr Tim's products, drain and refill the tank and buy fish from there. He won't tell you to test the water daily and do water changes whenever ammonia and nitrite are above zero, just wait till the fish are poisoned then sell you medication; when they die he'll sell you more fish.



You say nitrite was 4.0 before and after a water change - what is the highest level your tester reads?

 

[Oldspartan]

Personally I have no confidence in my lfs but some in my not so lfs. These feelings have developed through actual dealings.

I have great confidence in this forum and an equal amount in what I read, and I have been reading a lot then refining.

I accept the fish stores likely mean well but temper that with the knowledge they want to sell fish. That may shade their opinions. The advice here does not casters that need.

My lfs does not seem to understand that laying off a sale opportunity will be repaid many times over. That is their loss not mine. The not so lfs appears to understand this and will reap the benefit.

 

[Country joe]

@Country joe One of the most important lessons in fish keeping is don't believe anything a shop worker says. Most of them will say anything to make a sale. It is likely that your shop worker wants you to stop using Dr Tim's products, drain and refill the tank and buy fish from there. He won't tell you to test the water daily and do water changes whenever ammonia and nitrite are above zero, just wait till the fish are poisoned then sell you medication; when they die he'll sell you more fish.



You say nitrite was 4.0 before and after a water change - what is the highest level your tester reads?

Nitrite yesterday was still at 4, will test water tomorrow as I'm going away today, this may be a silly question but would adding more bacteria be beneficial something like Gloop.