The Nitrate Debate

[glolite]

 

I'm actually tempted to go and buy an API nitrate test just to see if it corrispondes with my JBL one!
 
I'm also wondering if our water is messing up the test. My tank runs at pH 6.5 with a gH of 1 ... I wonder if this is affecting the Nitrate reading. My tap pH is about 7.4 and the Nitrate test comes out at about zero so if the soft water affecting it I have no idea but I can't help wondering 

 
I am not aware of the GH or pH (when not extreme) affecting nitrate tests, but that doesn't mean it isn't.  I use the API and all my tanks test between 0 and 5 ppm.  My largest used to test 5-10 ppm, when it was much more heavily stocked.  And my GH is near-zero, and pH runs from 5 in some tanks to mid 6 in others.  Tap water is zero.

Hi Byron, thanks for that, I will contact my local water authority and take some samples for testing as you suggested. None of my mbuna have died from bloat thank goodness but even though I have had them for several years and they breed constantly, I am always trying to improve water quality as much as possible. There are several water filter units on the market which acclaim to lower nitrates, however, they are quite expensive. There are also several products such as purigen and matrix which go in the aquarium filter. Maybe someone else on here has tried them and can give some feedback. Anyway, it's a very interesting topic to be discussing and I look forward to hearing the views of Dr Monks.

 
Confirm your numbers before worrying more.  Few things are clear-cut, hard and fast in this hobby, and we all have much to keep learning.
 

Ok here goes from our on line water authority information :
 
Water hardness 269mg/l Ca Co3 Hard (We're on chalk)
Ammonium  average 0.009 mg NH4/l   (PCV 0.5 whatever that is )
Nitrate average 23.5 mg NO3/l (PCV 50)
Nitrite average 0.005 mg NO2/l (PCV 0.5)
Nitrite/Nitrate formula 0.472 (PCV 1)
 
Errr I'll leave the experts to tell me what that all means.
PS the pH is 8 and above which suits rift cichlids very well I believe.

 

[Akasha72]

I'll leave that one to Byron cos I can't work that out!
 
and yes, hard water and African cichlids go so well together!

 

[glolite]

Thanks Akasha, good thread!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Ok here goes from our on line water authority information :
 
Water hardness 269mg/l Ca Co3 Hard (We're on chalk)
Ammonium  average 0.009 mg NH4/l   (PCV 0.5 whatever that is )
Nitrate average 23.5 mg NO3/l (PCV 50)
Nitrite average 0.005 mg NO2/l (PCV 0.5)
Nitrite/Nitrate formula 0.472 (PCV 1)
 
Errr I'll leave the experts to tell me what that all means.

PS the pH is 8 and above which suits rift cichlids very well I believe.

 
Here's what it means to me:
 
You have the correct fish in your tank.  African cichlids do best in hard water, with 8+ pH.  That part works very well.
 
Your ammonia numbers are *fine*.. that would be considered 'trace'.  Same for the nitrite.
 
Your nitrate test is about what is to be expected.  Your home nitrate test is probably reading in the "20-40" range, and it is just a challenge to get much of a discerning look on those color charts.  20ppm is yellowy-orange.  40ppm is reddish-orange.  80ppm is red.  And to me, 160ppm looks exactly the same as the 80ppm.  
 
The nitrate test is the least accurate of any of the tests.

 

[Byron]

I agree.  I maybe able to shed some light on the nitrate now with these numbers.  The nitrate unit they are using is likely the scientific one I mentioned in an earlier post, commonly seen as NO3 N-n.  Our test kits (the API anyway) uses total Nitrogen.  So 20 NO3 N-n would equate to 44 NO3 on our kit.  You are likely reading fairly accurately, if my assumption on the units they use is correct.
 
It is always possible that your nitrate is lower than their "average," and your colour is more yellow-orange as JD mentioned.

 

[Akasha72]

I need to stick a badge on my profile - don't ask me anything scientific cos I'm just too thick to understand 

 

[Essjay]

The nitrate unit they are using is likely the scientific one I mentioned in an earlier post, commonly seen as NO3 N-n.  Our test kits (the API anyway) uses total Nitrogen.  So 20 NO3 N-n would equate to 44 NO3 on our kit.  You are likely reading fairly accurately, if my assumption on the units they use is correct.

 
 
Glolite doesn't give his location but if it is the UK, the nitrate measurement from his water company's table will be measured as nitrate-NO3 not nitrate-N. It will be the same scale as his home test kit.
My son worked for 5 years at what was at the time the UK's largest water testing company so I asked him and he confirmed that they used Nitrate-NO3. This is why the maximum permitted level in the UK is 50ppm nitrate compared to the American 10ppm.
 
So when quoting water company nitrate readings, we need to know the country.
 
 
Glolite asks about PCV in the water company's table.
 
PCV stands for prescribed concentration or value. It is the maximum allowed value in drinking water. So the PCV, the maximum allowed value, for nitrate is 50ppm (aka mg/l)
 
 
 
 
 
And just to be pedantic, it is 10 on the nitrate-N scale that is equivalent to 44 on the nitrate-NO3 scale, not 20. The conversion factor, as you said in an earlier post, is 4.43
Quote from post #7

 
The conversion factor is 4.43 so 10 ppm N-n (the drinking water limit) is 43.3 ppm with our hobby kits.

 

[Byron]

Yes, thanks, I missed that.  

 

[ShinySideUp]

Wow, pH 8+ hard water! I bet your kettle doesn't last long.
 
When I lived in Maidehead I used to have to change my kettle every year as it got furred up so quickly. Here in Cornwall a kettle lasts until...well, I don't know, I've never had to change it (or descale it) in 14 years. Our water is about pH 6.5 and very soft, soap lasts for ages. The pH is good for Clown loaches, which is lucky for mine.

 

[glolite]

 

The nitrate unit they are using is likely the scientific one I mentioned in an earlier post, commonly seen as NO3 N-n.  Our test kits (the API anyway) uses total Nitrogen.  So 20 NO3 N-n would equate to 44 NO3 on our kit.  You are likely reading fairly accurately, if my assumption on the units they use is correct.

 
 
Glolite doesn't give his location but if it is the UK, the nitrate measurement from his water company's table will be measured as nitrate-NO3 not nitrate-N. It will be the same scale as his home test kit.
My son worked for 5 years at what was at the time the UK's largest water testing company so I asked him and he confirmed that they used Nitrate-NO3. This is why the maximum permitted level in the UK is 50ppm nitrate compared to the American 10ppm.
 
So when quoting water company nitrate readings, we need to know the country.
 
 
Glolite asks about PCV in the water company's table.
 
PCV stands for prescribed concentration or value. It is the maximum allowed value in drinking water. So the PCV, the maximum allowed value, for nitrate is 50ppm (aka mg/l)
 
 
 
 
 
And just to be pedantic, it is 10 on the nitrate-N scale that is equivalent to 44 on the nitrate-NO3 scale, not 20. The conversion factor, as you said in an earlier post, is 4.43
Quote from post #7

 
The conversion factor is 4.43 so 10 ppm N-n (the drinking water limit) is 43.3 ppm with our hobby kits.

 


Hi Essjay, yes we live in the Uk, North Downs county Kent hence the chalk. Indeed the kettle needs renewing most years ShinySideUp and descaling on a weekly basis. Strangely I also have clown loaches and they thrive in our water for some reason. Thanks for the information, will come back with results of nitrate testing by my local LFS when I get the chance.

 

[clivealive]

hi my nitrates are also stuck generally around 80 plus and has been for ages.
all my fish are fine as in they dont die from it .  onlt thing i see is that  certain fish dont show best colours etc
my firemouths dont die but are colourless compared to how they should be.
I have tried various nitrate reduction remedies but most are useless for me. (purigen, nitrazorb etc)
ive been looking for a solution for ages as i do think less nitrate would be better.

 

[Akasha72]

hi clive, have you tried the JBL one in the link on the first page? The guy at MA that told me about it has used it himself and assured me it works

 

[Byron]

hi my nitrates are also stuck generally around 80 plus and has been for ages.
all my fish are fine as in they dont die from it .  onlt thing i see is that  certain fish dont show best colours etc
my firemouths dont die but are colourless compared to how they should be.
I have tried various nitrate reduction remedies but most are useless for me. (purigen, nitrazorb etc)
ive been looking for a solution for ages as i do think less nitrate would be better.

 
These are some symptoms, correct.  Are the nitrates solely within the aquarium?  Or are there nitrates in your tap water as well?

 

[jag51186]

I'm actually tempted to go and buy an API nitrate test just to see if it corrispondes with my JBL one!
 
I'm also wondering if our water is messing up the test. My tank runs at pH 6.5 with a gH of 1 ... I wonder if this is affecting the Nitrate reading. My tap pH is about 7.4 and the Nitrate test comes out at about zero so if the soft water affecting it I have no idea but I can't help wondering 

 
Not to detract from the convo, but how are you growing plants at a gH of 1?? I was under the assumption they needed at least somewhere in the 3 range for GH to thrive! I'm impressed...they must put something special in the water over the pond! 

 

[Akasha72]

I think my plants grow like crazy because I have excess phosphate in my tap water and the slightly high nitrate probably helps too. I also add Co2 daily and ferts too