Teething Issues With My New Tank

[waterdrop]

Yes, its generally a good approach to separate ones thinking about mineral content and pH in the tank during cycling from mineral content and pH in the tank after cycling is over and the tank is running normally.

The tap water gives some idea of the baselines the tank might be near once cycling is over but is not entirely the same as a running tank, so its good to be planning to watch the pH and mineral content for a period after you get fish (assuming one understands what its likely to be well enough to have made the stocking choices) which should hopefully give a more true idea of what it will be like for years to come.

What model of eheim filter is it? Most of the larger eheim external cannister filters run several trays of media and often one of those trays contains a gravel-like material called ehfi substrat (or a larger, rounder ehfi substrat pro) which is really a sintered glass ceramic gravel. What you could do in this case is buy a box of fresh ehfi substrat for the donor and then together you just be careful to not take more than 1/3 the volume of this substance in the mature filter and replace it with an equal amount of the fresh media. Your friend should never even see a blip in the performance of the filter.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[JoshuaA]

Hey again WD o/

This is what I've been using to get a rough estimate of what could be stocked in the tank http/aqadvisor.com/, However I found it a little generous on the stocking quantity with a 60l tank and I found a lot of people saying "So and so will mix, its worked fine for me!" and then the advisor stating these fish will murder each other. Of course once the tank has started cycling and stocking it will be in sight I will start a list and of course ask for advise .

I'll enquire about this Eheim filter, thankfully you understood what brand I meant with my extremely poor attempt at spelling it haha! All I visually remember was that it was an inside tank filter, Quite large maybe 12" and a green translucent plastic cover around the mid section and an inlet at the bottom and outlet at the top. I'm going to start browsing through their product in my spare time to see what I can work out.

Thanks for your advice again!

The scientific part always adds to the fun

 

[waterdrop]

Eheim makes 3 families of internal filters as far as I know. The Aquaball and PickUp filters are generally for smaller tanks up through about 100 liters and the Powerline filters handle larger volumes. If the filter was large and squarish, your description might best fit one of the PickUp models. Eheim has pretty good web sites for different countries.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[JoshuaA]

Eheim makes 3 families of internal filters as far as I know. The Aquaball and PickUp filters are generally for smaller tanks up through about 100 liters and the Powerline filters handle larger volumes. If the filter was large and squarish, your description might best fit one of the PickUp models. Eheim has pretty good web sites for different countries.

~~waterdrop~~

It looks remarkably similar to the Pickup one you mentioned. However it was massive, the tank is a few hundred litres I couldn't possibly guess its volume though. Though on the site the filter internals looked nothing similar. His was like a neoprene material in a tube up the centre from top to bottom.

 

[JoshuaA]

Interesting turn of events my girlfriend hadn't done a test since Sunday the 9th.

I performed a nitrite test and it actually showed a result... Although only small it showed the 0.5 - 1.0 ppm! Woot, so I did the obligatory Ammonia test to see when to add the next dosage of ammonia. The ammonia test read 0.0 - 0.25ppm. Of course this begs the question where has all the ammonia gone? I decided to test for Nitrate and the result showed 5.0ppm.

So the results today were

Ammonia = 0 - .25 ppm
Nitrite = 0.5 - 1 ppm
Nitrate = 5 ppm

Our tap water stats are 0ppm for all 3.

So now the question is how many parts of nitrite to make a part of nitrate? I know Ammonia break down produces lots of Nitrite. Though I wonder where our 4ppm Ammonia has gone if its ended on only 5ppm Nitrate? Does this sound right?

Would anyone find it easier if I were to put our "log" of results?

I also dosed the tank back up to 4ppm following the advice from the fishless cycle thread.

 

[PDSimon]

It is much easier if you put a log of results, then I may answer the other questions

Most importantly

ammonia, nitrite and added ammonia.

and pH and nitrate if you've done it

 

[JoshuaA]

It is much easier if you put a log of results, then I may answer the other questions

Most importantly

ammonia, nitrite and added ammonia.

and pH and nitrate if you've done it

Alright I'll write it out the log book I made my gf keep. I will show only the relevant changes and ignore typing out. (For now 2 tests a day with the result showing the average or the 2 results if significantly different. The tank has 2 "Live" plants. However they are pretty wilted due to the Ich treatment.

1/5 = Ammonia 4ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm
ph ignored test following advice from the guide
2/5 = Ammonia 4ppm
3/5 = Ammonia 4ppm
4/5 = Ammonia 2-4ppm (Two tests with completely different results one was 2ppm and one was 4ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
5/5 = Ammonia 4ppm
6/5 = Ammonia 4ppm
7/5 = Ammonia 2-4ppm (same instance as on the 4th)
Nitrite 0ppm
8/5 = Ammonia 2ppm
Nitrite 0ppm (Beginning to wonder where the Ammonia is going)
9/5 = Ammonia 4ppm (It hasn't gone anywhere back again!)
Nitrite 0ppm
PH 8.4 ( As discussed before, soft water and ammonia, according to the guide not a concern either due to the fact I should perform up to a 95% water change after the cycle is complete, however indicates in the future my ph could well fluctuate easily with fish in)
10/5 = Shamefully didn't test
11/5 = Shamefully(er) didn't test
12/5 = Ammonia 0-0.25ppm (dosed to 4ppm) (I rubbed my eyes, took a second look and did 3 tests to come to terms with what has happened!)
Nitrite 0.5-1ppm
Nitrate 5ppm
I'm thinking this would be a lot better if I made a spreadsheet for this. Rather than rapidsharing it would it be ok to just take a screenshot of it on here?

Furthermore I have an offer from a friendly forum goer for some mature filter media, assuming we can get this to survive transit it would surely benefit the cycle especially if its under way. Due to the fact this is the first time I've seen any sign of nitrite I wouldn't want to kill the bacteria by disturbing the filter media when trying to cram some filter floss in. Also I have a Fluval U2 filter and I had placed the Carbon inserts in to remove a medication for Ich, However I didn't bother removing it as in one post on this forum they claimed it to be doing no harm if left in but also a good place for bacteria to cling on to as well as the ceramic media. Upon receiving this filter media, where would I be able to place this without risking removing potential bacteria colonies in the filter?

Finally, My car passed its MOT woot! Though for it to pass costed me £130

 

[PDSimon]

Screen shots are fine... thats what I do...

It would be good to add filter media. I changed filter floss every couple of days on the first part of my cycle and it didn't seem to have any effect. are you sure you couldn't cram it in?

Congratulations on the pass

if i were you I wouldn't worry about nitrate at all yet... everything looks fine.. nitrites appearing..ammonia going down.

nitrates are unreliable, especially when testing, I've been told..so like I said, no point thinking about them, not this early in the stage but keep checking for them every now and again although you don't need to for a week or so yet

 

[JoshuaA]

Here's the screenshot here!



Most days the test were Morning and Evening, however yesterday 12/5 the tests were done within 15 minutes purely so I could get an accurate reading and the fact we were going to be out the house all day. I redosed the tank to 4-5ppm after the 2nd test showed 0ppm on the Ammonia. Is it possible that the bacteria had reduced the Ammonia concentration below the detectable threshold in 15 minutes? I mean the numbers show some correlation between Ammonia going down on Nitrite going up on the 2nd tests however I know its early days but is it possible or due to the testing "accuracy"? I also wonder whether the fact the plants aren't in full health at the moment could be pushing more Ammonia into the system? In the last day my girlfriend had noticed that one of them had grown a new shoot and it had grown around an inch in about 36 hours. (Canadian Pond weed)

Hope I've done that correctly haha!

Well Simon, The filter goes "Foam > Poly/Carbon > Ceramic Media < Poly/Carbon < Foam" I feel like if I were to cram anything in that small space it would restrict the flow significantly. The decision I would make is to remove the foam as there is no real debris in the tank as there is no fish, so I could put the filter floss in place of the foam and then swap them back round. I would just be a bit scared that replacing the floss with the foam would remove a huge bacterial colony and send the tank into a mini cycle once fish were added.

I was honestly thinking I was going to have to scrap the car haha, Last year It passed with 2 recommendation, I sorted one myself and one of them I went to fix some time later and the mechanic (friend of the family) said there was nothing wrong with it. However we found out today that the real problem was the rear suspension bars had snapped! The road to my girlfriends is mighty bumpy and I've been told to claim it off the council but geeze... I think it was just wear and tear to be honest! I guess my car will be a bit safer to transport glass fish tanks if I end up moving in the next few months.

 

[JoshuaA]

Another update for anyone interested.



Unfortunately my excel skills have had to be dusted off and a few kinks, (I only did the average column so I could attempt to make formulae again and make a graph out of the results in the end to compare it to other peoples.

 

[OldMan47]

Keep an eye on that pH Joshua. It looks like your water may have a relatively low buffering capacity. A pH drop below 6.4 can stall the cycle's progress. If that happens, your best bet is to do a large water change and re-dose with ammonia. Since you have been going for several days and are still above 7.0, no artificial buffers should be needed to control your pH.

 

[JoshuaA]

Keep an eye on that pH Joshua. It looks like your water may have a relatively low buffering capacity. A pH drop below 6.4 can stall the cycle's progress. If that happens, your best bet is to do a large water change and re-dose with ammonia. Since you have been going for several days and are still above 7.0, no artificial buffers should be needed to control your pH.

Got my eye closely on that pH, water is apparently one of the softest water supplies in the country. pH has never been below 7.4 in the history of the tank so far (I had an issue with fish earlier on in the topic. The PH was never lower) Is this a good sign though? Am I right in thinking that once all the Ammonia and Nitrite is 0,0 then the pH should be at the level that it is from the tap?

 

[Assaye]

Sorry about the filter media, I'll get it to you as soon as the darn Post Office re-opens. Can pop into town on Monday if the local one is still not open by then. Grrr! Stupid water leak.

 

[JoshuaA]

Sorry about the filter media, I'll get it to you as soon as the darn Post Office re-opens. Can pop into town on Monday if the local one is still not open by then. Grrr! Stupid water leak.

Lol, Don't worry about it! It wouldn't of got here any faster if you have had already posted it, it is the royal mail after all!

 

[JoshuaA]

So, Recent water tests have actually shown the pH to start dropping below 7... we have now just recorded a pH of 6.8.

I know this is going to be problematic and especially since I have soft water, how will I be able to artificially raise this? This is with following tests

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 2 - 5 (Indistinguishable)
Nitrate 160

pH 6.8

What is making the pH drop, is it the nitrite? Nitrite is acidic? I'm sorry if that sounds a silly question but I didn't expect to have it "crash" like that. It goes back up to 8.4 pretty fast if we add ammonia. However we're adding 4/5ppm ammonia every 24 hours and now the ammonia can be processed in 12 hours I don't want to "overload" with Nitrite. Is this the right thing to do?

Would a water change be the right course of action to fix this? Or should I be adding something else?