STOP DUMPING YOUR MONEY DOWN

ste2k3 said:
I use an RO and yes they are expensive to run and do produce a lot of waste but you get the better quality of water needed for marines. I use it for tropical too but use Kent RO right and @ £10.50 a tub, it ain cheap.
I'm setting up a new FW tank at the moment, and for the first time in a FW I'm going to use RO; I too have a tub of Kent RO right at the ready!

My RO water shows general hardness and kH as undetectable, which I'd expect, but the chap in the LFS thought that even after adding the Kent RO right, the kind of minerals that it adds do not show up on hardness test kits, and that I'd just have to trust the dosage amounts given. Is this right? :dunno:
 
If you want the best water for your tank and are willing to spend that kind of money on an R/O unit, why not buy Distilled water? Distilled water is far and away a much better option than R/O because distilled water still has the good stuff in it.
 
I stand corrected and I realize the error in my posting.
Let me see if I can demonstrate what I really do mean, I do realize the distilled water does not have all the good stuff, though several things can carry over with distilled water, thats a different discussion.

R/O vs Distilled

Typical home water softeners soften water using a technique known as "ion exchange". That is, they remove calcium and magnesium ions by replacing them with sodium ions. Although this does technically make water softer, most fish won't notice the difference. That is, fish that prefer soft water don't like sodium either, and for them such water softeners don't help at all. Thus, home water softeners are not an appropriate way to soften water for aquarium use.

I guess the true reason people use R/O water or Distilled water is to affect pH. So, lets define pH.

pH refers to water being either an acid, base, or neither (neutral). A pH of 7 is said to be neutral, a pH below 7 is "acidic" and a pH above 7 is "basic" or "alkaline". Like the Richter scale used to measure earthquakes, the pH scale is logarithmic. A pH of 5.5 is 10 times more acidic than water at a pH of 6.5. Thus, changing the pH by a small amount (suddenly) is more of a chemical change (and more stressful to fish!) than might first appear.
To a fishkeeper, two aspects of pH are important. First, rapid changes in pH are stressful to fish and should be avoided. Changing the pH by more than .3 units per day is known to stress fish. Thus, you want the pH of your tank to remain constant and stable over the long haul. Second, fish have adapted to thrive in a (sometimes narrow) pH range. You want to be sure that your tank's pH matches the specific requirements of the fish you are keeping.

Most fish can adjust to a pH somewhat outside of their optimal range. If your water's pH is naturally within the range of 6.5 to 7.5, you will be able to keep most species of fish without any problems. If your pH lies within this range, there is probably no need to adjust it upward or downward.

With this now know we need to address the Buffering Capacity. (true problem with distilled and R/O)

Buffering capacity refers to water's ability to keep the pH stable as acids or bases are added. pH and buffering capacity are intertwined with one another; although one might think that adding equal volumes of an acid and neutral water would result in a pH halfway in between, this rarely happens in practice. If the water has sufficient buffering capacity, the buffering capacity can absorb and neutralize the added acid without significantly changing the pH. Conceptually, a buffer acts somewhat like a large sponge. As more acid is added, the "sponge" absorbs the acid without changing the pH much. The "sponge's" capacity is limited however; once the buffering capacity is used up, the pH changes more rapidly as acids are added.
Buffering has both positive and negative consequences. On the plus side, the nitrogen cycle produces nitric acid (nitrate). Without buffering, your tank's pH would drop over time (a bad thing). With sufficient buffering, the pH stays stable (a good thing). On the negative side, hard tap water often almost always has a large buffering capacity. If the pH of the water is too high for your fish, the buffering capacity makes it difficult to lower the pH to a more appropriate value. Naive attempts to change the pH of water usually fail because buffering effects are ignored.

In freshwater aquariums, most of water's buffering capacity is due to carbonates and bicarbonates. Thus, the terms "carbonate hardness" (KH), "alkalinity" and "buffering capacity" are used interchangeably. Although technically not the same things, they are equivalent in practice in the context of fishkeeping. Note: the term "alkalinity" should not be confused with the term "alkaline". Alkalinity refers to buffering, while alkaline refers to a solution that is a base (i.e., pH > 7).

So, With all that in mind now lets talk about the benefit to using Distilled water in water changes.

If you use Distilled water or even R/O water during you water changes you will be able to slowly and safely reduce your pH while maintinaing your tanks buffering ability. So, instead of paying 200.00 for an R/O unit go to the store and pay 59cents for a jug and use it to top of or do water changes. As water evaporates from the tank the water left in the tank becomes harder due to the minerals being left behind. This alone is a good reason to use Distilled water.

Now I am not saying to use a pure R/O tank or pure Distilled tank as both are not good for your tank. What I do suggest is to use it for top offs and partial water changes. Aslo, with partial water changes add a little tap water to the mixture to keep your buffering high.
 
I guess the true reason people use R/O water or Distilled water is to affect pH. So, lets define pH.

No, not at all. The true reason is to remove all the impurities in the tap water. For instance my tap water shows phosphates at 5+, my RO water removes them to the point where they are undetectable. That's just one example. Using RO water then a re-mineralisation means that you know that only the "good stuff" is in the water. pH is a by-product, and is irrelevant for marines anyway.
 
Im with TCA on this one. An R/O unit is ok I suppose, but not really worth it IMO. I have only spent 5 measly dollars on a dechlorinator that has lasted me 7 years. :p
 
I use RO water but don't have a unit as my water is metered and my parents would kill me, RO has done wonders for my fish and the minerals arn't expencive. the main reasone why i use RO is i live in a place where there are loads of farms and all of them use fertalisers and they get into the water suply. that means phosphates and nasty pestacides. so ever since i moved to peterborough form london i used RO. i costs me £3.50 for 25L and i get 50L every moneth or so thats £84 a year and that is way way way cheeper than to get a RO unit and less hassle and its only 13 miles to get there fule cost £151.5 and so a total of £239.5 per year and it's still cheaper than getting a RO unit. so if ur smart get someone else to get the RO unti and buy ur water (only in the uk)
 
Tropjunky said:
a total of £239.5 per year and it's still cheaper than getting a RO unit
My RO unit cost around £200 and the running costs are about £60-£70 a year, so if you're unmetred then it's cheaper to buy one. But I accept that if you're metred it may be a different story!
 
The reason for pH discussion is due to buffering. Without proper buffering you can have massive pH swings which will severely stress your fish out.
 
Please forgive me, but I haven't read all of the posts(not enough time), so yell at me if I am repeating a question that has already been asked. :rolleyes:

RODI stands for reverse osmosis deionized water, right? And the reason for using it is because it takes all of the impurities out of tap water.............any other things that it does benficially?

I have been thinking about getting a deionizer, but I am not sure how much they cost here. Also, I think I have heard how to make your own, but would it be cheaper to just buy one? I have to (*sigh*) pay for water now..........(never had to growing up or at my first home) and so that is a consideration too.

I guess I am asking for some expert opinions here! :nod: Some pros and cons?
 
Pros: Starting off with pefectly clean and fresh water, complete control of parmeters using additives
Cons: More money, waste of water, more care needed by the aquarist (not necessarily a con)
 
Adrinal said:
OH ya one more thing.

Some people have nice water with less disolved crud. Infact it is so good, you can drink it from the tap... well you can drink any water from the tap... This thread was never supposed to be for this case :)
If you don't have water quality issues, you don't need to, but if your fish are constiantly sick. Your water is bad and you need more stuff than just chlorine then ... bla bla bla.
Yay! Sam's is somewhere I can shop for sure.......how much are we talking here?
 

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