Started my Fishless cycle

[AlexT]

If your cycle will crash then doing it with fish is going to make things more complicated because you can't use sodium bicarbonate, which is the easiest thing to use to keep your KH and PH up.

If you want to cycle with fish, and need to keep your KH to 4 for the filter seeded bacteria then you are entering the world of crushed coral etc.

I know what I would do. Give the bacteria media a chance and leave fish out of it for a couple of weeks or you might end up with two headaches (1) a tank that isn't cycling well and (2) managing fish whilst you have ammonia and nitrite to contend with PLUS the extra faff of crushed coral.

Atleast give this new bacteria a week and leave the fish out, and use sodium bicarbonate if needed.

If the ammonia does not go down from 2ppm and you do not get any nitrite within 7 days of the new bacteria then the new bacteria either doesn't work, or just works very slowly, and if cycling products just work "very slowly" then they have lost their pulling power for me.

Let's see. It's over to you now... Dermot the Ammonia king of Scotland

 

[Dermot40]

I have crushed coral coming. That will take a bit to break down to replace the bicarb. I get what you are saying about adding fish too soon, I have thought about that.
If I left the bacteria to mature for a couple of weeks am I correct in saying I would need to feed the bacteria with added ammonia. This might be the way to go, but at what point do I take the big step of introducing the fish as an ammonia source.

The saga rumbles on.

 

[AlexT]

I get what you are saying about adding fish too soon, I have thought about that.
If I left the bacteria to mature for a couple of weeks am I correct in saying I would need to feed the bacteria with added ammonia.

Yes, but only if the ammonia gets below 1ppm I think @Essjay

 

[Essjay]

The only time a cycle will crash due to low KH is during cycling. It will not crash once you've grown all the bacteria you need. Once the cycle is complete and you have fish, the KH can be zero with no effect. We have members with zero or near zero KH and they don't have cycle crashes.

You need to feed the bacteria. If they are not fed, they won't multiply. Ammonia must be added to get them to multiply. Leaving the bacteria to 'mature' will just mean them dying of starvation and not multiplying.

 

[Dermot40]

The plan of attack is :
Add Goop tomorrow wait to see what is going to happen. I will add a couple of lbs of crushed coral. If things are positive I will keep bacteria fed by adding ammonia when reading drops below 1ppm. I will watch ALL readings and manage the tank for a few weeks.
Then on a given date if everything runs smooth I will do a 80% water change add dechlorinator and buy 2 small fish.
Have I got it correct

 

[Essjay]

No, don't add 1 ppm every time ammonia drops or you'll make so much nitrite it will stall the cycle.

What are you current readings for ammonia and nitrite? Last reported was ammonia at 2.0 ammonia and zero nitrite (post #65). If they're still the same, add the goop. Then test every day until ammonia is below 0.75 and nitrite is over 2 ppm. When you get those reading, tell us and we'll give you the next stage.

 

[AlexT]

That's the best advice. Report back at pre set intervals Dermot. Seems to work well on here. Unlimited cycling consultation on tap. We are lucky! Essjay working a double shift sometimes.

 

[Dermot40]

Before I did my 70% water change today as Goop man ( Jack ) said I needed to lower ammonia before adding Goop Was :
Temp. 81F.
Ammonia. 4ppm.
Nitrite. 0
Nitrate. 0
PH. 7.6
KH. 5
GH. 7
I did water change at 1.00pm
After water change 6pm readings are :
Temp. 81F.
Ammonia. 0.50ppm.
Nitrite. 0.
Nitrate. 0.
PH. 7.6
KH. 3
GH. 7
What do you think about Ammonia & KH readings before I add Goop tomorrow. Should I raise BOTH up a bit.

 

[Essjay]

Maybe boost KH a bit with bicarb. Coral will take too long as officially it's insoluble. It takes a while to have any impact. Crushed coral is for long term slow raising.

Ammonia at 4 ppm is a bit high. The method on here says no more than 3 ppm. That figure grows more bacteria than are needed but is low enough not to make too much nitrite. Each 1 ppm ammonia is turned into 2.7 ppm nitrite so it doesn't take much ammonia to make more than 15 ppm nitrite.

 

[Dermot40]

Ammonia at 4 ppm is a bit high.

That was before I did a water change Ammonia now reads 0.50ppm

 

[Dermot40]

I’ve just added 1 Tbsp of bicarb to tank.

 

[Essjay]

That was before I did a water change Ammonia now reads 0.50ppm

Sorry, I meant that's why they said to reduce it.


Bacteria, like animals, are constantly dying and being replaced by babies.
If there's more food than the current numbers can eat, more are born than die until the numbers are just right to eat all the food. This is what happens during cycling.
If there's just enough food, they are born and die at the same rate so the numbers stay the same. This is what happens after cycling when there are fish in the tank.
If the amount of food drops, less are born than die until the numbers are just right for the lower amount of food.

If you use 0.5 ppm, enough bacteria will grow to eat that amount of ammonia. If you then put fish in the tank and they make, for example, 2 ppm, there won't be enough bacteria so ammonia will build up in the tank until a lot more bacteria are born. That's why we use 3 ppm for cycling, so we grow more bacteria than the fish need. Then they slowly drop in number till the amount is just right for the ammonia made by the fish. It's better to have more bacteria than needed than have less bacteria than needed and end up doing a fish-in cycle.

 

[Dermot40]

So are you saying I DONT need to increase Ammonia 0.05ppm is ok I thought it should be over 1ppm

 

[Essjay]

Yes you do need to increase ammonia or there won't be enough food to make the bacteria multiply. 3 ppm was chosen for our method as that grows enough for an overstocked tank. So add enough ammonia to get 3 ppm.
What I meant was that Tropco said to get it down from 4 ppm as that was too high.

 

[Dermot40]

I have now got Ammonia at 2-3 ppm
PH 7.8
KH. 7
Let tomorrow’s battle commence