Sick killing method, STOP!

[xxdiamonddebxx]

I dont agree with the clove oil method as i have used clove oil for tooth ache and it hurt and when i went to my dentist he said that clove oil burns the gums so i can only imagine what it would do to a little fishes skin. I personally would prefer a quick death and as i have not had to kill any of my fish i think the best method would be to get my boyfriends size 12 (uk size) to do it quick and i know he wont miss!!! If there was a giant and i was terminal i would prefer to be stomped!!

 

[punkserb]

if i was terminally ill and had to die i would request to be throw off a very very high cliff.

i therefore advocate taking your dying "nemo" and throwing him from the top of an apartment building so he can experience the rush and joy and freedom of freefall. besides, the blow that gravity will give him upon impact to the ground is more than any of your boots can do!

 

[steppy104]

if that were the case, i think it would be better to go "sky diving" and then "accidently" forget to pull the ripcord.

i almost agree with that...not for the fish though. lol. but the only prob i'd have would be the fear of not dying when i hit the ground...otherwise, i think i would definetly die happy like that...

 

[utahfish]

i'm not naive enough to think that i can change any bodies opinion on the subject but i figure it's a fish, it doesnt care how you kill it. fish have something like a memory of six seconds if you stepped on your fish and didnt kill it six seconds later it probaly would forget you stepped on it.

 

[punkserb]

i'm not naive enough to think that i can change any bodies opinion on the subject but i figure it's a fish, it doesnt care how you kill it. fish have something like a memory of six seconds if you stepped on your fish and didnt kill it six seconds later it probaly would forget you stepped on it.

hahahaha! so true!

 

[steppy104]

tv proved that wrong.....they had gold fish to test this theory.

they put food in an orange ring, and kept feeding them through this, till they automatically came to it when they saw it. at first they were timid, and afraid of the big orange ring.
then they put dividers throughout a long cage, and a hole in each one with a bright orange rim. they set the goldfish loose, and they found their way through in a few minutes. they did this over the next couple of days, and they timed the fish. it took all (about 5 or so) of the fish a total of 23 seconds to get to the food at the end of the "fish maze".

this proved that fish have the ability to recall things over a longer period of time than just a few seconds.

 

[punkserb]

yea...but tv also said there were WMD's in iraq!

 

[steppy104]

tv repeated hear-say.....someone else actually stated that.

i watch mythbusters....not politics

 

[utahfish]

it's like pavlovs dogs, they hear the bell ring and they start slobberin all over the place without any food in front of them. except fish dont slobber. i'm no expert but i take fish for what they are a pretty thing swimming around a tank of water in my house, they dont know who i am they dont know that i fel bad when theyre sick all they know is that when the extra light entering the tank from me lifting up the lid they know food is coming. just like pavlovs dogs the bell rings they get hungry. even if theres no food. the fish dont remember they have been conditioned. just like the dogs. my dog eats two times a day he doesnt remember whether or not he had chicken or beef all he knows is that when i say you want some food that food is going to be in his bowl. though comparing dogs to fish isnt a very good comparison as dogs have better memories and new studies have shown that dogs have a intelect similar to that of a two year old. fish arent that complex they leave in a world where survival is dependent on how they react to their environment they dont memorize their environment they react to it and are conditioned to it over time. at least thats what i think, like isaid i'm no expert but thats my opinion based upon no research or scientific studies just o plain ignorance.

 

[steppy104]

i still think that they remembered "food.....ORANGE! FOOD!"

if they didn't remember orange, then they would'nt have known what the orange holes were....they'd have already forgotten.

these fish weren't kept in the maze tank....they were released into it. so they weren't givin time to adjust to it, and know their way around....it was an all of a sudden thing for them.

 

[endparenthesis]

Yeah... there's a difference between conscious memory and habit.

 

[Henry_VCG_]

Try and get along... This is not an abbusive forum!!

 

[KB87]

Hey everyone, being new I'm a bit hesitant to come in on such a controversial topic... so I'll just give you some research and my little opinion. This is a study, I guess you would call it, someone on another fish board I have been with for a few months did when we were all on the topic... (not my study, I couldn't do it!)



Euthanasia prelim results (not for the squimish)

there has been loads on the board lately over this and some very wrong info here and there so i decided to do some fairly rougth experiments tho the results should stand as a good starting point for more in depth reaserch.


first the setup and problems faced.

first i tried to decide how you could measure in some way the level of pain a fish is feeling so various methods could be evaluated. after alot of thought i decided the simplist yet most accurate way to do this was to measure different stress level hormones both before and and directly post mortem. the hard part is getting a base reading from the fish, as any form of penetration with a needle will induce stress that will show in the blood 15-20 seconds later and this could skew the results. however if u tranq the fish first then it's an invalid test.

so it was decided to house the fish seperately in small 18"x12"x12" tanks for 48 hours with 70% water change daily with water taken directly from the sterile chamber of a central sump filter. then just before the test on each i sampled there water and tested for the hormones secreted in there urine useing a Gas Photo Spectrometer and Radon Gas Ioniser. this gave good non stress load levels on each subject.

It was decided that rather than just post a long list of data that wouldnt realy mean much to most i would use a scale of 1-10 to describe the humane index of each method if you like with 10 being the most humane.


the subjects chosen were 3" Gold fish all of wich were happy and healthy before hand.

the methods tested were Co2 (will count for all types) Clove oil, MS222, Freezing,Pure Ethanol Bath (98%), Para formaldahyde (cranial injection and submersed bath in 30% solution),Potasium permanganate cranial injection (is of use to me on the very big fish we sometimes have to deal with), spinal cord seperation,decaptation and hard blow to the head.


the following results were acheived

Co2 7
clove oil 7
MS222 9
Freezing 1
Pure Ethanol bath 2
Para Formaldahyde Bath 6
Paraformaldahyde crainial injection 9
Potaasium Cranial injection 9.5
Spinal Cord 3
Decapitaion 4
hard blow to the head (varied results from 10 experiments rageing from 1 to 8 )




ok this isnt conclusive science the experiment has a couple of flaws but the data is valid test data, and would server as a good start for more extensive research by someone with alot more time than me. i wouldnt recomend decapitaion as the results are very varied there it cant be described as a predictable method.
as for the rest that is for others to argue over.
[/COLOR=purple]


As for me, call me spineless if you like, but I just don't have the heart. I think I should let nature take it's course.

 

[nirvanarama]

IMO, giving it drugs (eg overdose of antibiotics) is a bit slow, and i really dont trust chemical ways of ending an animals life.

the acceptable ways, IMO, would be to smash it with a hammer (in the head region) or cut its head off quickly, with 1 cut.

 

[astroboy]

Alright, since we can't refer to other forums heres the gist of the post. This is my $.02

1) -If its a small-medium fish, put it in a plastic cup with some clove oil.(6drops per liter)
-Then put it in the freezer
-quote " Since fish are cold blooded, when you freeze them does their metabolic rate, and cardiovascular system slow until they become unconscious and then ultimately go into cardiac arrest (but from an unconscious state)? Or do they suffocate or maybe both? I raise the question, because if they become unconscious from freezing then that might be a humane way of euthanizing the fish."
-quote "Depending on the species and its adaptation to cold, neural function will fail before the fish freezes. Essentially like passing out."

2) -If its a larger fish, a sharp knife in one swift motion sliced behind the gills will do the job.

This being said, some of you have emotional attachment to your fish making the euthanasia hard (especially the knife method). But i , personally, do not get attached to my fish. This is largely based on the opinions and knowledge of others and i have no scientific evidence to back up these claims.

A lot of this information should be accredited to someone else on another forum.