Sensesfail Tank Journal

[waterdrop]

Yes, we had snow this morning in North Carolina.. not very common!

In an after-cycled tank with fish and plants you can definately sometimes get little mini-spikes when you clean the gravel. The disturbance stirs up debris that is in the process of being broken down into ammonia by the heterotrophic bacteria (there can be a hundred species of heterotrophs doing this, they think.) But in a fishless cycling tank there is usually little debris to cause much of this unless there are a fair number of plant leaves breaking down after they've died. Anyway, if you get a bit of that, don't be disturbed that it has much to do with your fishless cycle, it doesn't (except that you may eventually observe that as your filter matures more and more during the full first year of the tank, it will get faster at clearing any brief thing like this, but most people actually don't even observe any blips above zero.)

Note that the actual reality of trying to find all the specimens you want in your initial stocking can be tricky to time. You'd like to make the most of the opportunity to do a pretty large initial stocking but sometimes your LFS just doesn't have the species you want or the individual specimens don't look like what you want. You just have to make some decisions on the fly, such as whether to "vamp" and just keep adding ammonia for some more days while your LFS gets you in the right ones or whether to go with a smaller stocking and just drag out the process (the waiting two weeks between stocking additions and all that) longer in the end.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Rynofasho]

Snow here in St. Louis, Missouri too. And Ice. And COLD.

So SF, what are the first fish on your list?

 

[SensesFail]

Snow here in St. Louis, Missouri too. And Ice. And COLD.

So SF, what are the first fish on your list?

Fish on the list I'm thinking of yellow lab cichlids and whatever goes I do like the "rusty" cichlid but I need to find out what's compatible. I'm
Defo going to try and get syno petricolas (not the dwarf ones) but the place I found may be sold out but i can always start with the cichlids first. I like most of the African cichlids but I'm after nice markings and colours really but the tank is only
190litres so I'm limited. Any ideas?

I'd love zebra plecos but not got the budget for 80-100 pounds each!

 

[SensesFail]

At the moment Im getting 0.8 nitrite in the morning and 0 on a night which is when I put the main dose of ammonia in. I put about 7ml of amonia in on a night and about 2.5 ml in in a morning. So hopefully it will be ready soon the LFS iv been to can get the fish in around the Friday after new year so with any luck my tank should be near as you know WD it's been a while in the process

Will it be ok during the Xmas to alter the ammonia feeding time from 9pm to around 4:30pm feeding just once a day as apposed to a main dose at night and a tiny amount 12 hrs later? I hope the tank is ready for when the fish come in I need some luck!! And need to change the tank decoration. For the past 3 days iv had 0.8 nitrite in the morning and 0 24 hrs later l

Cheers D

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, if you have to you can alter the time of day of the dosing. Just realize that it may make the readings seem a bit strange at first. WD

 

[SensesFail]

This morning I have tested the tank and the nitrite is 1.6 s has been 0.8 the past 3 mornings l Ph was 6.5 so that has dropped so I have topped it up with baking soda to increase the ph. The nitrate will be very high I can imagine as the water has not been changed for sometime. Is it worth doing a water change today and changing the time of the main adding dose also? I'll add a slight amount of ammonia now and change the water this afternoon?

The ammonia is continuing to drop also. Is it worth changing everything at this point or should I still wait. (changing the gravel for sand, decoration for ocean rock and adding air stones?) or should I just do a water change leave everything else until later next week see where we are then?

Cheers guys

 

[waterdrop]

Hi SF, I forget whether you are just trying to prep the tank so you can be away a few days for a holiday trip or whether what you're talking about are changes you wanted to make around the time of the big water change and getting fish, so that you'd have a permanently different look?

Anyway, if it's the former, you could add a pinch of fishfood to the final ammonia dosing before going away for a weekend or that sort of thing. If it's the latter then I have some comments:

On the one hand, the substrate, tank walls, decorations and other hardscape will indeed carry a small amount of the beneficial bacteria and when a tank is so young as to be cycling, it has so few beneficial bacteria that these may represent a noticeable amount of the nitrification going on and be missed in the test results if they are removed...BUT, since the tank is young, these extra "out of filter" beneficial bacteria will, just like the young filter, be relatively few in number compared to if they were removed from a very old running tank, so they can also be seen as not that significant.

On the whole, I think the best approach is just to understand that if you change out all the substrate and/or other hardscape you may suffer what looks like a little setback but that you have to just ignore it and consider it ultimately insignificant because you expect and want your filter to be the main thing, with lots of mature beneficial bacteria anyway, once you get fish. So, keeping that in mind, I just have never seen much problem in doing whatever you want with changing out substrates, hardscapes etc. while still working on fishless cycling.

Just be sure that the usual rules are followed that the biomedia stay wet with tank water all through any processes and that no process goes on for something crazy, like more than 12 hours with the filter off sort of thing. Having your filter off for 12 hours would theoretically only result in maybe 2% loss of colony or something but as fishless cyclings we just sort of dislike little setbacks like that..I don't know, does that make sense. Have I understood you and am saying anything helpful? I wasn't quite sure I understood your current worries.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[SensesFail]

Hi SF, I forget whether you are just trying to prep the tank so you can be away a few days for a holiday trip or whether what you're talking about are changes you wanted to make around the time of the big water change and getting fish, so that you'd have a permanently different look?

Anyway, if it's the former, you could add a pinch of fishfood to the final ammonia dosing before going away for a weekend or that sort of thing. If it's the latter then I have some comments:

On the one hand, the substrate, tank walls, decorations and other hardscape will indeed carry a small amount of the beneficial bacteria and when a tank is so young as to be cycling, it has so few beneficial bacteria that these may represent a noticeable amount of the nitrification going on and be missed in the test results if they are removed...BUT, since the tank is young, these extra "out of filter" beneficial bacteria will, just like the young filter, be relatively few in number compared to if they were removed from a very old running tank, so they can also be seen as not that significant.

On the whole, I think the best approach is just to understand that if you change out all the substrate and/or other hardscape you may suffer what looks like a little setback but that you have to just ignore it and consider it ultimately insignificant because you expect and want your filter to be the main thing, with lots of mature beneficial bacteria anyway, once you get fish. So, keeping that in mind, I just have never seen much problem in doing whatever you want with changing out substrates, hardscapes etc. while still working on fishless cycling.

Just be sure that the usual rules are followed that the biomedia stay wet with tank water all through any processes and that no process goes on for something crazy, like more than 12 hours with the filter off sort of thing. Having your filter off for 12 hours would theoretically only result in maybe 2% loss of colony or something but as fishless cyclings we just sort of dislike little setbacks like that..I don't know, does that make sense. Have I understood you and am saying anything helpful? I wasn't quite sure I understood your current worries.

~~waterdrop~~

Hi water drop that's perfect

I'm going to nip home once a day to top up the ammonia but will be left the rest of the time. I think I'll change the decoration/ substrate but will this stop me getting fish 2 weeks on Friday? If the nitrite is still showing when its time to get can i change over to a fish in cycling as the tank is nearlyntheir monitoring and water changing when required? I have new sand to go into the tank with decorations I may set to work in a mo. Least then I can see what results I get after it. I hope it doesn't set me back in that I cant get fish 2 weeks on Friday as it seems to be nearly there now?

Will all this work do you think? I'll pos a pic of the new tank see what you guys think. If I change the decoration now or after cycle the same will happen in that I will loose something?

Cheers

 

[SensesFail]

All sorted

Sand is now gravel and orniments have been replaced by ocean Rock with air stones added. I shall post a pic of it and let you
See for some feedback! D in 6 hrs time when I finish work. I tested everything and got 0 for everything and 7.5 for Ph. I topped the ammonia up by 7-8ml and did this at 17:00 changing the dosing from 9pm

Back of the tank wise is it better leaving space at the back of the decorations for the fish? It's quiet busy at the back but I do have plenty space at the front. ( this will be shown in the pic later).

I'll post the pic laters

 

[SensesFail]

New Layout Pic One

Close Up of Left side (air pump not sorted yet)

Side View of front of tank

left hand close up

Old tank layout at the bottom. What do you think better without the ocean rock and sand or? Will this be ok for the cichlids which will be around 3-4cm when i get them and catfish which will be similar if not smaller?

cheers Guys

 

[kporteo]

Love the top pictures, not too keen on the gravel - the colour doesnt match the decor!! But thats my opinion, its up to you!
K

 

[SensesFail]

Love the top pictures, not too keen on the gravel - the colour doesnt match the decor!! But thats my opinion, its up to you!
K

Is that the gravel on the bottom picture? Or the sand on the top picture? Big transformation from bottom pic to top ones

 

[kporteo]

Love the sand on the top pictures, and dont like the gravel on the bottom picture!! Sorry for being vague - it was very late!
K

 

[SensesFail]

Love the sand on the top pictures, and dont like the gravel on the bottom picture!! Sorry for being vague - it was very late!
K

I'll have to get the better camera out once the tanks sorted with fish im toying with throwing the gravel away I have it sat in a bin. Im thinking will I actually ever use it again lol or am I keeping it for no reason just in in case. I think the sand probably will stay and if I get a new tank sands not dear. Testing time at 16:30 I hope everything is 0 l unable to test twice a day over Xmas so it's gonna have to be once with one main dose.

I think I'm due fish soon what do u reckon haha. It will be my 100 day anniversary soon (not counting the first month with bio mature)

 

[SensesFail]

Tonights ammonia 24 hrs after the new main dose time and after changing the substrate and orniments the ammonia was 0 and nitrite was slightly under 0.8 which is a slight step back as it was usually 0 nitrite 24 hrs later before the big changes! sadly i cannot check the results after 12 hrs for a few days but ill make the 24 hr period to dose the ammonia and test then.

Everything ok with this?

Come this far dont want to make any mistakes!