Sensesfail Tank Journal

[SensesFail]

synodotis petricola are beautiful fish! Hope you can get some at some point!

It's really wonderful to hear that you are processing that much ammonia that quickly! I remember not so long ago when your ammonia processing was going nowhere! I can't believe the nitrite processing will be that far behind now that the ammonia is moving. Perhaps you should be measuring and posting nitrate (as well as pH and the other usuals) more often. Also, one thing that disturbs me about your post is that you say you're adding ammonia every 12 hours? We usually like to recommend that ammonia only be added on the 24hour mark. Its good to test and know what your stats are at 12 hours but its also good to "pulse" the ammonia additions such that they only ever happen at the 24hour mark (and of course ammonia is only added if it went to zero ppm anytime within the previous 24 hours. It doesn't matter that they go without any ammonia for a lot of the 24 hours, that is what "pulsing" is.

~~waterdrop~~

Ah so I should be adding ammonia every 24 hrs? That could explain the delay In the nitrite dropping? So at this point in time my partner added 5ml at 9pm which should have taken ammonia to 3-3.5ppm. Should this be now left until 9pm the following night? Rather than 9am? I though I had to top up even 12 hrs if ammonia was 0 that's where I'm going wrong? Would this have done any damage or just result in extremely high nitrite?

 

[Doc7]

Also while someone answers the Q above: if a tank still has ammonia > 0 (like 0.25 ppm) at the 24 hour mark, don't add for another 24 hours? or if it's that low is it ok to dose anyway?

 

[waterdrop]

No Doc7, when it gets down to traces, say 0.25 and below then I'd say its ok to just bring it on back up again. 4ppm is actually a nice amount in the first phase, perhaps after a couple of initial 5ppm ones (if one can even judge 5ppm lol), then 2-3ppm during the second phase (the nitrite spike) and then back up to a real 5ppm for the finish in the third phase after the nitrite spike is gone.

SF, since you are in the 2nd/3rd phase, it wouldn't hurt to try this new thing we've tried once of a tiny bit of ammonia dose at the 12 hour mark (assuming its zero ppm at that point) and then the rest of the dose at the 24 hour mark (by far the main dose.) I would not worry that you were dosing at 12 hours - both these things, 24hour pulse-dosing and lowered dosing during the nitrite spike are ways to lower the amount of total nitrogen going in to the system so that nitrate (with the small amounts of nitric acid that accompany it) will not build up quite as fast. The N-Bacs are inhibited to some extent by high NO3.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[SensesFail]

No Doc7, when it gets down to traces, say 0.25 and below then I'd say its ok to just bring it on back up again. 4ppm is actually a nice amount in the first phase, perhaps after a couple of initial 5ppm ones (if one can even judge 5ppm lol), then 2-3ppm during the second phase (the nitrite spike) and then back up to a real 5ppm for the finish in the third phase after the nitrite spike is gone.

SF, since you are in the 2nd/3rd phase, it wouldn't hurt to try this new thing we've tried once of a tiny bit of ammonia dose at the 12 hour mark (assuming its zero ppm at that point) and then the rest of the dose at the 24 hour mark (by far the main dose.) I would not worry that you were dosing at 12 hours - both these things, 24hour pulse-dosing and lowered dosing during the nitrite spike are ways to lower the amount of total nitrogen going in to the system so that nitrate (with the small amounts of nitric acid that accompany it) will not build up quite as fast. The N-Bacs are inhibited to some extent by high NO3.

~~waterdrop~~

Ah kk will give it a go! I left the tank since last night only dosing on the 24 hr mark but I'll dose a tiny amount on the next 12th hr wasn't sure what to do so waitedvfor this reply hopefully my gf remembered to top it up at 9pm last night!! Hope it's nearly done lol

 

[waterdrop]

The longer your rite of passage, the better you remember...

 

[kporteo]

The longer your rite of passage, the better you remember...

I second that!!!!!
K

 

[SensesFail]

Well i tested the tank last night and the nitrite was around 1.6. I added the main dose of ammonia and this morning (12 hrs later) the nitrite was 3.3+ with the ammonia 0. I added an ever so slight amount of ammonia and 12 hrs on it was 0.3 nitrite and 0 ammonia so iv added the main dose. is this on the correct track?

Once the nitrite is 0 will it be a case of fully dosing with ammonia every 12 hrs making sure it is 0 or do you stick to the adding the main dose on the 24th hr and simply topping up a slight amount on the 12th hr?

roll on completion how many months now haha

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, nothing has changed that your fishless cycle seems way slow for some unknown reason. Definately don't ever start doing full dosing at 12 hours. The main dose should remain at the 24 hour mark all the way until the big water change and getting fish. If we can get you down to consistent tiny amounts of nitrite at 12 hours (unlike the unpredictable amounts you are still getting at this point) then we may have to call it a day on this case and switch you over to fish and just monitor the stats closely and water change if you have to.

WD

 

[SensesFail]

Yes, nothing has changed that your fishless cycle seems way slow for some unknown reason. Definately don't ever start doing full dosing at 12 hours. The main dose should remain at the 24 hour mark all the way until the big water change and getting fish. If we can get you down to consistent tiny amounts of nitrite at 12 hours (unlike the unpredictable amounts you are still getting at this point) then we may have to call it a day on this case and switch you over to fish and just monitor the stats closely and water change if you have to.

WD

It's certainly been a nightmare! Tried everything so hopefully the tank will give me a break haha we can live and hope! See what the next 12 hrs bring!

 

[Rynofasho]

Fingers crossed for you!

 

[waterdrop]

So what's our total days now? Have you passed martinking?

 

[SensesFail]

So what's our total days now? Have you passed martinking?

Hi WD well o added the main dose of ammonia last night to 3/4 ppm. This morning I had closer to 3.3 on the nitrite level but it did look ever so slightly under. So iv topped the ammonia up ever so slightly so see what we have in the next 12 hrs. Last night I had 0.3 on the main ammonia dosing.

So it's doing it every 24 hrs but not 12 what's happening? Lol ammonia is being processed within 12 hrs. Ph is 7.5+

 

[waterdrop]

OK, over the last half hour I've been looking back at your threads (didn't realize before how intent you were about discus all that time(!)) and as best I can tell you are getting to about 80 days of fishless cycling since you switched over to ammonia from the biomature stuff. That relaxes me a bit that you are not completely out of our range of experience in that I recall a number of cases going over 100 days before the nitrite finally stopped appearing. (Of course, it puts you within the most extreme 5% I'd say, meaning you should get a patience award, lol.)

The fact that ammonia is consistently processing down in 12 hours and that you are indeed seeing nitrite processing should mean that eventually this filter is going to finally get there I think. What you are currently seeing (the bouncing around of nitrite readings) is something I've seen before. The N-Bac processing has never seemed as steady to me as the A-Bac processing. Whether this is something actually about the bacteria or something having to do with our testing and feedback I'm not sure but I -have- noticed it before.

(What am I remembering about temperature? You finally did work it out so that you were getting a nice warm 29C/84F for the bacteria, right? Having that all along promotes a faster fishless cycle I feel and I thought I remembered that might have been another factor early on?)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[SensesFail]

OK, over the last half hour I've been looking back at your threads (didn't realize before how intent you were about discus all that time(!)) and as best I can tell you are getting to about 80 days of fishless cycling since you switched over to ammonia from the biomature stuff. That relaxes me a bit that you are not completely out of our range of experience in that I recall a number of cases going over 100 days before the nitrite finally stopped appearing. (Of course, it puts you within the most extreme 5% I'd say, meaning you should get a patience award, lol.)

The fact that ammonia is consistently processing down in 12 hours and that you are indeed seeing nitrite processing should mean that eventually this filter is going to finally get there I think. What you are currently seeing (the bouncing around of nitrite readings) is something I've seen before. The N-Bac processing has never seemed as steady to me as the A-Bac processing. Whether this is something actually about the bacteria or something having to do with our testing and feedback I'm not sure but I -have- noticed it before.

(What am I remembering about temperature? You finally did work it out so that you were getting a nice warm 29C/84F for the bacteria, right? Having that all along promotes a faster fishless cycle I feel and I thought I remembered that might have been another factor early on?)

~~waterdrop~~

The temp is currently set at 29c it's been a long process I can certainly say. I think the fish will be coming after Christmas. I can imagine fish stock in LFS will be sold out although for the catfish I'm hopefully getting them from a different source (not LFS) as for cichlids propbaily LFS or good Internet based site. Discus was the dream but I'm more swaying towards a Malawi setup having bought ocean rock and ocean sand to change the tank once cycled from my gravel and wood. Cant wait to change it but someone mentioned it may disrupt the cycle if I do it now? Am I best just doing it when I do that final big water change at the end of the cycle?

So all in all WD I'm still on the correct lines? My next test time is 22:00 British time so in 9hrs time from this post. I hope it gets their for the time and money I have spent.

Iv said this before but Thanks again water drop really appreciate the time you have taken to help out from day one! And of course everyone else who has popped in.
I think an award should be given for WDs time and effort with my problems and every other thread in the forum you have contributed to!

 

[kporteo]

SF, seen your from Newcastle way, have you been to Tyne Valley Aquatics in Prudhoe? The lads there are fantastic, really clued up and not shy from telling you if they think your about to do something wrong!! If you call them, they can order in most fish you want.

K