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Seachem stability

Country joe

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You may have noticed I'm always asking what dosage on products for my 27. 5 gallon tank, its because you can get different advice, on using stability I was told to add 5mls to a new tank but I mailed Seachem and they said to use16 mls on a 27,5 new tank, seems a lot.
 
Directions for Stability are here https://seachem.com/stability.php.

There are three dosage schedules and concentrations.

1) New tank first day 5ml/10 gallons = 0.5 ml per gallon or 27.5 * 0.5 = 13.75 (go with 14ml)
2) New tank next 7 days 5ml/20 gallons = 0.25 ml per gallon or 27.5 * 0.25 = 6.88 (go with 7 ml)
3) Monthly maintenance 5ml/20 gallons (same as 2 but only once a month instead of daily)

I have used cycling starters but once the tank is established, I don't ever use it again. I don't think you need to stress about the exact dosage because the ability for the bacteria to colonize won't be that strongly affected by the dosage but more by what is available for them to colonize and consume, ie the ammonia. The values others have given are close to what I calculate for the two different dosages but likely are based on metric instructions, and the persons calculating used the imperial gallon conversion to litres (larger gallons than the US).

If I was to use this product I would go with 15ml and 5ml, three capfuls first day then only one capful for the next 7 days. I would not bother with the monthly dosage.
 
20240326_085550.jpg
 
Under the heading: “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Stability is a bottle of spores.

The nitrifying bacteria do not form spores, they use binary division to reproduce.
Q, Why does Stability™ not need refrigeration? If there's living bacteria in the solution, how do they stay alive for so long? Or is there something else besides bacteria in the product altogether?

A: The bacteria in Stability™ are alive but not active. They exist in a spore form. They can withstand extreme temperatures and do not require food to survive. When you add them to your aquarium they become active due to dilution.
from https://seachem.com/stability.php Click on the FAQ.

Do all bacteria produce spores?


Bacterial Spore - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics


Only gram-positive bacteria can form spores, including species such as Bacillus subtilis, Clostridium tetani (Figure 1.8(B)), etc. The spore contains a complete karyoplasm and enzymatic system and can maintain all the essential activities for the bacteria to remain alive.

Ginestet, P., Audic, J.M., Urbain, V. and Block, J.C., 1998. Estimation of nitrifying bacterial activities by measuring oxygen uptake in the presence of the metabolic inhibitors allylthiourea and azide. Applied and Environmental Microbiology, 64(6), pp.2266-2268.
(The quote below are the first two sentences in the paper.)
Nitrogen removal is partially achieved by nitrification, which is performed by two groups of gram-negative, obligately aerobic bacteria. Ammonia oxidizers and nitrite oxidizers transform ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate, respectively (7, 19).
from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC106310/

The science shows that what is in Stability and what the are the known microorgainsms in our tanks are not the same. I have never been able to locate a single peer reviewed scientific paper which supports the claims made about this product. What makes this even worse is this:
Basics of Biofiltration
http://www.seachem.com/Library/SeaGrams/Biofiltration.pdf


BTW- it took me some doing to discover the above paper on Seachem's site many years ago. Apparently they are not anxious for people to find it.
 
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The instructions I posted have 5ml caps but i see on the big bottle they have 10ml caps. Ratio is the same.
 
I read through the abstract along with the other documents and I am not seeing how it supports the idea that the bacteria in stability are not normally found in aquaria.

Additionally, although the FAQ mentions spores I believe they are really talking about the granules which the bacteria do form.

the abstract of the article below discusses the long term storage of bacterial granules.

Abstract​

This study investigated a seven month storage and the subsequent reactivation of aerobic granules. The granule size and structure integrity were remained during storage, whereas some cavities and pleats appeared on the surface and further deteriorated the settleability. Along with the reactivation, the physical characteristics and microbial activities of aerobic granules were gradually improved. Activities of heterotrophs and nitrifiers can be fully recovered within 16 days and 11 days, respectively. Nitrifiers decayed slower during storage and reinstated rapider during reactivation than heterotrophs. In fresh aerobic granules, the dominated ammonia-oxidizing bacteria (AOB) and nitrite-oxidizing bacteria (NOB) were Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira, respectively. During storage, the initially dominated populations decayed rapider than the initially less dominated ones. Extracellular polymeric substances (EPS) significantly decreased within the first month, and then gradually accumulated during the last six months storage. Accumulation of EPS was an effective strategy for maintaining structural integrity of aerobic granules during long-term storage.


Overall it seems like the bacteria have the ability to reduce their metabolism in the absence of "food".
 
Sorry for going on, but these dosages , I also bought the sesa florena plant food and the recommended on my 27.5 gallon tank starting from scratch to use 30 mls, as a beginner this could be right but it seems a lot to me,
 
I read through the abstract along with the other documents and I am not seeing how it supports the idea that the bacteria in stability are not normally found in aquaria.

I wonder why to get one's tanks cycled for fish using a bacterial starter like One and Only or Safe Start Plus need only one dose to cycle a tank. Don't just take my ford for this ;)

Read the One and Only directions here:
https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/library/quick-guide-to-fishless-cycling-with-one-and-only/

Read the Safe Start directions here: https://www.tetra-fish.com/products/water-care/safestart-plus-8-45-oz.aspx
What they say is
Instructions

Shake Well.
To start new aquariums, add entire bottle to aquariums up to 100 gallons. Aquarium is then ready for fish. Consult your retailer for advice on type and number of fish appropriate for your aquarium.
For healthy maintenance, add one teaspoon (5ml) for every 10 gallons when adding fish, after water changes or after replacing filter media.
That BS about seeding it when you add fish or do a wc is there to make Tetra more money, it is really not needed. I do not use a starter when I do change bio-media. I put the new media in the filter and the old media in the tank for a week or two and then remove it. The bacteria prefer to be in a filter than in media out of the flow etc. The bacteria will colonize the new media and will begin dying off in the old. This gives the ompresiion they are moving from one media to the other.

Aerobic granules containing living bacteria nitrifying bacteria. These do not form spores. Spores are not aerobic granules. These were developed for use in wastewater treatment. They are a form of a object to which the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria as well as other heterotrophic bacteria and oxygen is involved form their biofilm. The first development was anaerobic granules.

None of the bacteria mentioned by Seachem is a nitrifier or reproduces by binary division nor has been found by science to be responsible for nitrification in aquariums. Note, that Abstract clearly states that the dominant nitrifiers in the aerobic granules were,
"In fresh aerobic granules, the dominated ammonia-oxidizing bacteria (AOB) and nitrite-oxidizing bacteria (NOB) were Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira, respectively."

Your are correct that the nitrifying bacteria go dormant, which means almost no energy consumption. This is one of the ways they are able to survive really bad times. They also have some motility as a further defense. If they did not do this how could they have survived for billions of years? They need these qualities because, unlike the heterotrophs, the nitrifiers do not form spores. Bear in mind that if a colony of a million individuals goes dormant that only one viable cell has to survive in order for more to be created. What wakes the dormant bacteria back up is ammonia etc. again becoming available.

Also, spores and anaerobic granules are not interchangeable terms. They refer to completely different things. An aerobic gramule contains all it needs to do nitrification and a few other things when they are put into use. The main reason they exist is they have a special application to waste water has to do with a couple of factors. Prior to the inception of aerobic granules. waste water treatment relied on flocs to host the needed microorganisms.

A floc is a type of microbial aggregate that may be contrasted with biofilms and granules, or else considered a specialized type of biofilm.[1] Flocs appear as cloudy suspensions of cells floating in water, rather than attached to and growing on a surface like most biofilms. The floc typically is held together by a matrix of extracellular polymeric substance (EPS), which may contain variable amounts of polysaccharide, protein, and other biopolymers.[2] The formation and the properties of flocs may affect the performance of industrial water treatment bioreactors such as activated sludge systems where the flocs form a sludge blanket.
(from Wikip.)

A common feature of waste water treatment is that the system is flushed regularly. Because a good part of the flocs are floating in the water rather than having setted on the bottom, the floaters are flushed out. An aerobic granule is heavier than a floc, so the granule will settle on the bottom faster which means it is way less likely to get washed out.

None of this has to do with what is in Stability or our tanks. Wat is relevant in all of this is bacterial starters for nitrification in aquariums must contain live bacteria which will be in a dormant state. This is not what is in Stability in any fashion.

If we are going to deal with the science of all of this we need to get it right. Perhaps this will explain aerobic granules a bit clearer:

Waste Management Series

Volume 6, 2006, Pages 85-98, I
Chapter 4 Mechanisms of aerobic granulation

Publisher Summary​

This chapter focuses on the mechanisms of aerobic granulation. Aerobic granulation is a process of microbial self-immobilization without the support of a carrier. Similar to the formation of biofilms and anaerobic granules, aerobic granulation should be a multiple-step process in which a number of physico-chemical and biological factors should be involved. Many factors have been known to affect the formation of aerobic granules in sequencing batch reactor (SBR). Compared with continuous microbial culture, the main feature of SBR is its cycle operation—that is, each cycle consists of filling, aeration, settling, and discharging. In SBR, the settling time is likely to exert a selection pressure on the sludge particles. Only particles that can settle down within a given settling time would be retained in the reactor, otherwise they would be washed out of the system. Selection pressure in terms of upflow velocity has been recognized as a driving force toward successful anaerobic granulation in upflow anaerobic sludge blanket (UASB) reactors. Similarly, in aerobic granulation, a selection pressure should be created to promote the formation of aerobic granules in SBR.\


If the dormancy and slight motility (nother subject for further discussion) of the autrophic nitrifiers were not an effective survival strategy then how else do we explain this:

But the new research shows that about 2.5 billion years ago some microbes evolved that could carry the process a step further, adding oxygen to the ammonia to produce nitrate, which also can be used by organisms. That was the beginning of what today is known as the aerobic nitrogen cycle.

The microbes that accomplished that feat are on the last, or terminal, branches of the bacteria and archaea domains of the so-called tree of life, and they are the only microbes capable of carrying out the step of adding oxygen to ammonia.

The fact that they are on those terminal branches indicates that large-scale evolution of bacteria and archaea was complete about 2.5 billion years ago, Buick said.
from https://www.washington.edu/news/200...were-key-in-developing-modern-nitrogen-cycle/
 
That BS about seeding it when you add fish or do a wc is there to make Tetra more money, it is really not needed. I do not use a starter when I do change bio-media. I put the new media in the filter and the old media in the tank for a week or two and then remove it.
No disagreement here.

the nitrifiers do not form spores
Agreed, only place I see this used is in the FAQ. I suspect it was dumbed down. "They are in spore form" because that is what will make sense to most people. The FAQ is very sales/marketing sounding, wouldn't put too much faith in the science aspect of the responses.

None of the bacteria mentioned by Seachem is a nitrifier
I couldn't find any mention of the actual bacteria used but I would suspect that they have some isolates of various nitrifying species. Just like the other companies do. Their SDS states that it is a proprietary mix of bacteria. Their own biofiltration document mentions Nitrosomonas, Nitrobacter, and Thiobacillus, the first two are part of the normal cycle, the third I am unfamiliar with.

Note: Dr. Tims instructions are for a fishless cycle which allows more time for the bacteria to establish. But overall I agree that once you have your tank cycled you really don't need to continue adding bacteria. The only reason to do so is if you are always damaging your cycle some how.

Overall, I suspect that SeaChem Stability contains at least a species of Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter, which the species and mix being a trade secret. I know the FAQ mentions spores but again I suspect it could be considered marketing speech. As to the dosage they obviously want to sell more so I can see them saying to add some at every event within the tank, "just to be safe".
 
Sorry for going on, but these dosages , I also bought the sesa florena plant food and the recommended on my 27.5 gallon tank starting from scratch to use 30 mls, as a beginner this could be right but it seems a lot to me,
I have no idea what a correct dosage would be, I don't use fertilizers other than root tabs. In general, unless you start getting into CO2, and if you are just starting, I wouldn't recommend adding fertilizers. In many cases if you have fish in the tank you don't need much fertilizer if any.
 
You can suspect all you want but Seachem makes is absolutely clear that Stability does not contain either of those species. They tell it is bottle of spored for 4 strains. Moreover it has been known since 1996 that there were no or almost no nitrobacter in cycled aquariums. Nitrospira were known to be what was doing this. The PhD microbiologist who founded SeaChem in 1980, Dr, Leo G. Morin, died at age 59 in March of 2001.

Research Article | 1 December 2001

Identification of Bacteria Responsible for Ammonia Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria​

Authors: Paul C. Burrell, Carol M. Phalen, Timothy A. Hovanec

Seachem stretches the truth when they claim Stability contian nitrifyers. In science this term refers to the autrophic bacteria and Archaea which convert ammonia to nitrite. The Nitrospira which were initially discovered to convert nitrite to natrae were at a later date shown to be able to convert ammonia to nitrate. All of these bacteria do not form spores. Are not in Stability but are in your tanks.

Many of the products which compete with the two which contain Nitrospira reveal what bacteria is in their product. Most contain Nitrobacter because The Nitrospira are patented. Sechem refuses to reveal what their bottle contains beyond saying it is spores for 4 strains of bacteria and two are itrifying. No scientist would say this as far as i can tell. Hetrophic nitrification reuires a lot of porganic food for the bacteria to work. The autotrophs need no organics.

In truth, these products have little, if any, of the true nitrifying species of bacteria, Nitrosomonas (NS) and Nitrobacter (NB), which are found in FritzZyme® 7 and 9.
https://fritzaquatics.com/products/fritzzyme-7-freshwater

API Quick start dioesn't reveal their strains but do state there is living bacteria in the bottle. Spores are not living bacteria.

Nutrafin Cycle:
New Nutrafin Cycle contains five times more friendly bacteria (nitrosomas and nitrobacter) than before, which significantly increases the speed at which they colonate within the aquarium as well as being able to immediately convert greater quantities of ammonia and nitrite into safer nitrate.
https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfi...sses-the-nutrafin-cycle-issue-i-think.111395/

Basically, if a product does not specifically identify the strains of bacteria contained or does not at least state they are live bacteria, then I would not use it. The products which contain Nitrobacter will help with a cycle but also will be mostly or completely replaced by Nitrospira when the tank is fully cycled. I use Dr. Tim's One and Only if I need a starter product. Also years agp I read his no longer on his site article on how he ran the biofarm for making One and Only.

But, it is important to understand the the various manufacturers of aquarium products have to compete. So they have to put out something and describe it so it sounds good. But it isn't the marketing hype that matters, it is the science involved. W.C .Fields one said: “If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with B S.” Only he did not use the initials.

I use a few SeaChem products they are not an awful company. But I would never use Stability for obvious reasons. And I would not use almost any starter product besides Dr. Tim's. I use it to help start my bio-farm when I need to get it going. I also use mulm from cycled filters in my tanks.


 
@TwoTankAmin
I will agree with you on the point that Seachem Stability does not provide even the genus of the bacteria within their product and that doesn't sit well with me either. But, I also don't read a lot in an FAQ, who wrote the response?, their marketing team? Where I work tech writers take our descriptions and work them into our documentation into a way that the readers can understand without a background in engineering or computer science. Often it is technically wrong but gets them to a working system.

I would agree that we should not need to constantly dose our aquariums with extra, "unknown bacteria" and that is the marketing side to this product.

The op for this thread was looking for confirmation on their dosing. I think we have helped on that issue. I find this area of the hobby interesting perhaps we should start a separate thread and stop hijacking this one.
 
Well, you are probably right. But I fear I might have a bit of an advantage. For the curious, here are links to the US patents for the Nitrospira and ammonia bacteria held by Dr. Hovanec et al:

Nitrite-oxidizing bacteria and methods of using and detecting the same
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7544501B2/en?inventor=Timothy+A+Hovanec
Method of using ammonia-oxidizing bacteria
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7482151B2/en?inventor=Timothy+A.+Hovanec
Method for detecting ammonia-oxidizing bacteria
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7270957B2/en?inventor=Timothy+A.+Hovanec

Here is a list of my fish related folders. Mostly contain links to multiple research papers on the topic. However, there are also a few articles, sites and vids interspersed. Some of the links may no longer active as they have been moved and I only learn this when I go back to reread some part of the paper.

Archaea - 39 papers (dealing with ammonia oxidizing Archaea or comparing/contrasting them with the bacteria)
Bacteria - 41 papers
Bacterial Survival - 17 papers
Cycling- 15 papers or links
Denitrification - 2 papers
Dr Tim - 15 papers or Links
fish acclimation - 5 papers
fish info- 19 papers and links
fish meds and diseases - 16 papers and links
fish stress - 4 papers
fish vids - 11 vids
Nitrate - 12 papers
Nitrite - 2 papers
Nitrospira- 2 papers
pH - 3 papers
Plant feeding - 26 papers (how the plants take up nutrients - not how to fertilize them)
test kits - 4 papers
toxicity - 40 papers

Plus these 2 unsorted links:
Overview of Aquarium Fishes: Aquarium Fishes: Merck Veterinary Manual
SeaChem says its the autotrophs

I still will occasionally peruse the literature for the most recent papers. But I mostly no longer bookmark them as I am on my way to retiring from most of the hobby.

What has been most interesting over the 20+years I have been looking at the scientific literature is how things change. This is exactly how science is supposed to work. it expects over time for thee learning process to improve and this often results in new or revised knowledge. This is pretty much the basis for progress over time.

1676
Two men are credited today with the discovery of microorganisms using primitive microscopes: Robert Hooke who described the fruiting structures of molds in 1665 and Antoni van Leeuwenhoek who is credited with the discovery of bacteria in 1676.

In order for the above to happen, it first required the invention of the initial primitive microscopes. Today we have electron microscopes.
Here are some pictures of Nitrospira, they need magnification from 2,000 - 93,000 times to see them:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure...th-magnifications-from-2000-93_fig2_272641034
Picture H is of one of the two strains of bacteria mentioned by Dr. Hovanec in his nitrite paper.
Instead, nitrite oxidation in freshwater aquaria appeared to be mediated by bacteria closely related to Nitrospira moscoviensis and Nitrospira marina.
 

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