Sa Cichlids For A 4' 240L Tank - Any Lists Available Somewhere?

[Proxo]

Sounds like all women, we can have the tank if the stand it's on is nice and matches the rest of the room LOL.

Here's the link, "terry the terror" ? lol.
http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=quyWj_kz1PA&feature=player_embedded

 

[ZoddyZod]

Here's the link, "terry the terror" ? lol.

Wow, lovely fish!

 

[ZoddyZod]

I've just been reading the PFK article by Heiko Bleher on Severums. He makes no mention of Rotkeils, but there is a picture of a Heros sp.2 'red shoulder'. Is this the same as the 'red necked' Sevs, or is this a rotkeil itself?

Are the two completely different fish, or different strains of the same species?

 

[Wills]

I've just been reading the PFK article by Heiko Bleher on Severums. He makes no mention of Rotkeils, but there is a picture of a Heros sp.2 'red shoulder'. Is this the same as the 'red necked' Sevs, or is this a rotkeil itself?

Are the two completely different fish, or different strains of the same species?

Its the source of a complicated headache I cant work out..... I think and mean think that Rotkiels were a group of "red necked" Severums that were collected from an area and taken to Germany where they were first bred hence why they are called Rotkiels - they are refered to Heros sp.Rotkiel which means they are not a described species such as Heros Notatus or Heros Severus so their specific scientific traits such as fin spine counts, scale counts or typical marking eg stripes or spots on the face or fins etc.

Looking at a few German importer sites there are dozens of Heros with red necks named after their locality and there are quite a few of them. So I would guess that there are a dozen or more species or strains distributed over the Amazon (if not more) and since the popularity of the first strain in the hobby - Rotkiel - when ever fishermen found a population of Heros they caught them and shipped them back to Europe, USA and Asia and so we now commonly see 2 species of "red necks" IMO which are Rotkiel and "Orange Shoulder" (I think Orange Shoulder is actually closer to Efasticious and Rotkiel is closer to Severus, in size, fin spine count, maybe in stress bar numbers but not sure and also in "fin webbing" in a few areas)

SO.... I think that in that article all the species Heiko has split into numbers are likley valid species in their own right perhaps from different locations. But in the hobby there are maybe IMO as many as 4 or 5 species of Red Neck Heros which are quite hard to differentiate between - though Orange Necks stand out a little IMO. But I suspect as time goes on (as with all wild caught, high demand, "rare" fish) their strains and species will be discovered at various points and will be imported in and then commercially bred in the hobby and the reasons for the changing catch point could be as simple as a group stumbling upon a population but could be more sinister such as the drugs trade moving them down stream and finding a new population of Red Necked Severum.

So in short I think that Rotkiel represents a species that was found first and imported back to Germany in small numbers (maybe as small numbers as 10/15) and bred and distributed across Europe by specialist dealers and aquatic clubs and auctions - then commercial farms got hold of them and started producing them to the point where about 80% of shops are now able to import them... However after this success more fishermen were looking for "red necked" severums and now we have reports, imports and sales of perhaps 4 or 5 "red necked" species that are not necessarily true "Heros sp.Rotkiel" as they were not the first imported to Germany.

Hope that makes sense!

I know Hieko Blher sometimes comes on this forum and if you read this sir I would really love your thoughts on this

Wills

 

[ZoddyZod]

Hope that makes sense!


Wills

yes, think I follow. Basically you are saying that Rotkeils originated via breeding a handful of specimens in Germany and due to them proving popular, wild catchers have now started to target fish with similar characteristics in the belief that they will be worth more or sell easier to the trade.

 

[Wills]

yes, but perhaps not quite as cynical as that but I imagine its a factor - but the main problem with this is now we are getting red necked species that are proving unfamiliar to the hobby and growing larger than we expect with most Rotkiels

Wills

 

[ZoddyZod]

Got it.

Although I very much like the look of the Rotkeil's, are there any other alternative cichlids that could be the main centerpiece of a 240l SA community?

 

[Wills]

Yes... lots lol

http/www.raubwelse.de/galerie/cichlidenmittel/cichlidenmittel.htm

I am having net trouble but if you search around that site you should find a section for south americans aka Cichliden Südamerika as well have a look see what you like Also Seriously fish is a good site for ideas as well

 

[GShorty1981]

Orange necks arethe most common round here (always labelled as Heros Sp. Appendiculatus), Rotkeils are never in the shops, i had to buy mine from the net.

 

[ZoddyZod]

there is a breeding pair of Rainbows at my LFS (£40).

Would it be a good idea to build tankmates around this pair, or will they be too boisterous when breeding?

 

[ZoddyZod]

hmmm, might be able to get hold of a 300L tank now (crosses fingers)

 

[minnnt]

£40 for a breeding pair? I am selling mine to Mattlee for £12!!! No way are they worth £40!!

 

[ZoddyZod]

Ahhh that's good to know!