Panda Worries

[IzzysGuppies]

Hi, not managed to do tests yet, not panicing just yet as it was only 11am when I did them this morning. I shall try and do them after tea. I've just had the filter apart, and the carbon part is..... yep zeolite. In the instructions it says 'Active carbon - zeolite container that enables chemical absorbant filtering' It is in a plastic sealed box on top of the sponge, but when I looked throught the slits into the box there are black irregular looking chips rather than the white shown on google.

One of the descripions via google images says 'Zeolites are used for the removal of ammonium from water fisheries, trucks to transport fish, and aquariums. The addition of zeolite to ponds and tanks often stops or inhibits the growth of algae by removing nitrogen from the water.'
So... why sorry for my ignorance here, is it so bad? If I get the chance in a bit I'll look around this forum for info on it. Is it this inhibiting action of the algae that is a problem? I do have some algae but only on the bog wood. (which has turned the water tea coloured by the way)

Right I'd best get tea, so I can do the tests!
I'll be back later

 

[IzzysGuppies]

Right, the humans dogs and cat are all fed, children in bed, and the results are in!

taken at 7.45 ish
pH has risen to 8, maybe slightly under but not by much (prev btwn 7.2 an7.6)
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 10ppm

I have read a bit about the zeolite, I guess I could prise open the plastic container and refill it with something else.
If I did this, when would be the best time to do it?

Still have 3 pandas, though I have prompted Plop to move twice as I was getting worried.

New worry, the biggest panda - Spot has a white spot on the flowing edge of his dorsal fin. It is about 1mm i think long and maybe half or just over that tall. Have I now managed to encourage white spot?

 

[IzzysGuppies]

Hi, this is not my fish, borrowed the pic off a google search as it is the closest so far to what Spot has, but is is right ion the edge of the fin.
http/lh6.ggpht.com/_6WX0CaH59oU/SS9YULQW...76/IMG_0592.JPG
Not sure if this link will work, but thought it would be worth a shot.
It is just the one spot from what I can tell, and I'm sure it wasn't there this morning.
Been quite paranoid about going on Panda hunts since we got them.
In this particular case the spot went and all eventuall seemed ok without it being white spot.
thanks again,
Lisa

 

[IzzysGuppies]

Hi,
Just to update,
Still 3 pandas. They have all moved, not exactly having a party, but they have all moved around from time to time and all without any help from me!
The spot on the panda's fin (it may not have been spot, it could be plop) has gone. If it is the panda I think it is then in place of the spot is a small hole in the fin, right on the very edge where the spot was. I hope this means that all is ok, and that I shan't suddenly find them all covered in whitespot.
Fingers croseed for them anyway.
I shall be doing a water change later and hopefully that will help too.

Lisa.

 

[Curiosity101]

If it was whitespot, then the whitespot parasite detaches to reproduce and is free swimming for awhile before re-attaching to fish.
I bought some fish a few weeks ago which had 3 white spots amongst them (I forgot to check at the store!)

Anyways, next day the spots had gone. I hoped this was going to be the end of it, but had white spot treatment at the ready just in case.
A couple of days later one of my loaches appeared with several spots (seemingly overnight), and so I started treatment that day.

Just have the meds ready, and the second you see any more spots on ANY fish, I would treat.

 

[IzzysGuppies]

Thanks curiosity, I was worried this may be the case.

Have you any recommendations for which treatment to go for. I know that some may be better for corys than others due to their skin, but I'm a bit confused which!
many thanks,
Lisa.

ps I also presume I should treat after doing the water change?

 

[Curiosity101]

I used interpets anti whitespot...but I know for definite loaches are meant to be quite sensitive to this...so I think half doses are recommended.
And yes I would medicates after a water change/just get the water as clean as possible before treating as if you do a water change during treatment (other than any stated on the medication bottle), then you need to replace any medication that would've been taken out during the change.

Ps. I would definitely post this in the tropical fish emergencies as the guys over their are the experts! Just post that the cory had a white spot, now it has gone. Give a list of what's in your tank, maybe mention the situation you're currently in (ie. uncycled tank) etc etc.

Good luck!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

was the white spot like a little grain of sand or more like a white cotton wool type growth?

 

[IzzysGuppies]

Hi,
spot could have been the size of a largish grain of sand, certainly not the fine sort. I would have said it was kinda fluffy but quite well defined edges to a squashed circle shape, not cauliflower type spot. In an earlier post in this thread I put a link to a fish with a similar sort of looking spot. It was the only one I could find and I looked for quite a long time putting various diseases into google images.
thanks

 

[Miss Wiggle]

if it was fluffy but not a grain then it's fin rot not white spot. it's very important to diagnose this correctly because if it was fin rot and it's now gone then everything should be fine and you don't need to add any treatment. However if it's white spot and it's dropped off you need to treat the whole tank with a medication that cories are sensitive too.

from your description i think it sounds like fin rot, but these things are nigh on impossible to diagnose over the internet without seeing a picture of the actual fish that's infected.

fin rot is quite common when there is poor water quality, it usually clears up by itself when the water quality improves.

the fact that you have 0 ammonia and nitrite is good for now, so do you think you do have zeolite in the filter?

 

[IzzysGuppies]

Thanks,
If the spot was white spot, would it have left a hole in the fin when it dropped off?
I'm now a bit confused as to who is who in the tank, and the hole looks like it may be on plop, the longest resident. I find looking through the glass at ends/middle at an angle can change the size of the fish considerably, espeially if they are not all together!

As for the Zeolite, that is a yes. It doesn't look white in the container, just black irregular chips, but the instructions say it is zeolite.
If i were to prize open the carbon/zeolite pot and refill it, what would be best to put in? and when should i do it?

Also I'm planning a water change this afternoon of 20%, this is my first change, should I rinse the filter in the old water? or wait til next time?

Lisa

 

[Miss Wiggle]

no probably wouldn't have left a hole whereas fn rot could have done - i'm inclined to think it's fin rot not white spot.

the problem with the zeolite is that is absorbs the ammonia, at the moment the zeolite is the only thing stopping you from getting ammonia and nitrite in the tank, when you remove it the tank will immediately start cycling and you'll need to go through a fish-in cycle where you do large daily water changes until the bacteria has grown and the tank stabilises.

Normally this is a bit of a pain but do-able, however I seriously doubt weather panda cories would live through a fish-in cycle They are really not a suitable fish for a brand new tank at all.

So really you have two options which you can consider, the safest is to return the fish to the shop or find someone with a mature tank who can take them for you for a few weeks while you cycle the tank fishlessly. But I understand you are a parent and for the kids (if not for yourself) it can be incredibly hard to part with your brand new pets so the other route to explore is to find someone in your area with a mature fish tank and get some filter media from them, the filter media will have the bacteria you need already growing on it and will then either instantly cycle the tank or will speed up the cycling process meaning you only have a few days or maybe a week of fish-in cycling which hopefully the fish would live through with large daily water changes.

It's a really tough situation to be in because the zeolite is keeping thigns healthy for now but it's not a sustainable way of keeping the tank healthy, at some point it will become saturated and just stop absorbing the ammonia, there's no warning signs or system to tell you when this will be so unless you want to test the water every single day forever then one day it will catch you out, you can guarantee it'd run out when you're away for the weekend or something like that and you'd come back to a tank full of dead fish

no need to instantly panic, it'll be at least a few weeks before it's saturated so your not in immediate danger of this, but you should give consideration to how you will manage the transfer from zeolite to bacteria otherwise it'll spring up and bite you in a few weeks time.

leave the filter for now, you only need to rinse out the filter media when the flow from the filter is slowing down.

 

[IzzysGuppies]

Thanks again Miss Wiggles,
I shall not add any meds as yet and just keep an then on all the fish for anything untoward.
I may go and get some to keep in the house though.

As for the filter, I take it the 'normal' sponge part of the filter won't be able to handle the ammonia as the zeolite starts to fail?
I have had small dealings in the pet food industry(not fishhy side though) to not be totally surprised, but it does seem strange that an awful lot of filters come with either carbon, zeolite, or a mixture of both in them if it causes so much trouble. I shall look into it a bit more, and hopefully when I'm back at work next week I'll get the chance to ask around for anyone that may own fish that may be able to help out with some mature media. Work at a school, so a fair amount of adults there, I just have a fairly isolated job there and not much chance for adult conversation!!

Lisa.

 

[Curiosity101]

Just had a thought...and I'd like miss wiggles opinion on this.
What do you think to adding mature media to the filter?
I have some leftover media from my fluval 2+ and 3+ which is currently sat in my eheim external, not really doing much filter wise. It was just there to seed it and since then I've just not bothered to remove it.

Well my point is that I could send you some..for a small fee to cover postage + packing etc...If we think it'd be a good idea?
And also if you Izzy, think that you could find room for it in your current filter?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

have you looked at the media donation link in my sig to see if you can find someone close by.

theoretically the bacteria can survive in the post, they'll start to die off after 24 hrs with no food or oxygen but in a recorded/special guaranteed delivery thingy (whatever they call it nowadays) it should make it in time and if you bagged it up in a tupperware with some flakes of fish food and plenty of oxygen for the water in there it should be fine..... but it's a bit risky. media donation does not work 100% of the time anyway and you're reducing the chance of it working by subjecting it to unknown conditions such as extreme temperatures etc.

the problem with the zeolite is if it absorbs all the ammonia before it gets to the sponge then the small amount of bacteria that is naturally present will have nothing to feed from and will consequently never develop so even though there is a place to grow bacteria the bacteria never have food so die off.