Two pandas with swim bladder issues

[Colin_T]

What medication did you order?
Most are poisonous to scaleless fish like catfish and need to be used at a lower dose rate.

If the fish are rubbing on objects, they probably have an external protozoan infection like Costia, Chilodonella or Trichodina. These cause cream or white patches of excess mucous on part/s of the body and the fish rub on things. You can treat it with salt.

White spot and velvet are also external protozoan parasites but they show up as small white dots (white spot) or a yellow/ gold sheen (velvet). The fish don't normally produce excess mucous when they have these infections. Heat (30C/ 86F) for 2 weeks usually treats these two diseases without the need for medication.

Your fish has excess mucous and if it's rubbing on things in the tank, and the water quality is good, then it's most likely an external protozoan infection and salt would be my first choice of treatment.

 

[Lcc86]

What medication did you order?
Most are poisonous to scaleless fish like catfish and need to be used at a lower dose rate.

If the fish are rubbing on objects, they probably have an external protozoan infection like Costia, Chilodonella or Trichodina. These cause cream or white patches of excess mucous on part/s of the body and the fish rub on things. You can treat it with salt.

White spot and velvet are also external protozoan parasites but they show up as small white dots (white spot) or a yellow/ gold sheen (velvet). The fish don't normally produce excess mucous when they have these infections. Heat (30C/ 86F) for 2 weeks usually treats these two diseases without the need for medication.

Your fish has excess mucous and if it's rubbing on things in the tank, and the water quality is good, then it's most likely an external protozoan infection and salt would be my first choice of treatment.

So I ordered NT labs gill fluke and wormer, active ingredient is flubendazole. I emailed them to doublecheck dosing, hopefully they will reply. It won't arrive until 25th so plan until then is to keep up the water changes (about to do one this morning). I can also turn the heater up.

I've also ordered some salt, unbelievably I don't have any on hand for emergencies so lesson learned there. I didn't want to just chuck things at it without being sure what it was.

I haven't seen the other cory flash since yesterday, it was strange as I saw this particular one do it and then another one joined in with him. I'm watching the tank now and everyone seems fine. The main two who are affected, including the one in the pictures who's lost his barbell, are still alive and quite active, although still floating towards the top when they swim. I saw the one with no barbels resting on the sand for ages last night and thought he might pass overnight.

Edit - the one with no barbels seems to be struggling a bit more and breathing is still fast. Would it be kinder to euthanise him and treat the rest? I am hoping he'll hang on but also don't want to cause him to suffer.

 

[Lcc86]

Follow up question, can I use the salt and medication at the same time? Both have been shipped, fingers crossed for arrival tomorrow.

Will be setting up a spare tank tomorrow to move the frogs into for the duration of the treatment as the manufacturer recommended separating them.

 

[MaloK]

If the general conditions are not deteriorating dramatically. I would do as Colin suggested: Start with the salt only. then keep on close observation.

 

[Colin_T]

You can use salt with deworming medications, however the flubendazole might kill external protozoan parasites so you might not need salt. I would try the flubendazole and see if the fish are still rubbing 24 hours after use. If they are, then add salt. If they stop rubbing, leave the flubendazole in the tank for 3 or 4 days and then water change it out.

With deworming medications, use them once a week for 3-4 weeks so you kill baby worms that hatch from eggs.

 

[Lcc86]

Thanks all and sorry for all the questions, I have never had to dose a tank with anything before so always feel a little unsure with things like this.

 

[AJ356]

I've used flubendazole a few times. A good aspect of it, is no impact on plants or filter bacteria.

Just be careful to maximise oxygen/surface agitation with it. That's usually pretty much the only thing that can go wrong. Especially if you are heavily planted, at night on the first day you dose, put surface agitation to the highest you can.

Flubendazole degrades fairly quickly in water, so if there is an issue with oxygen availability in the tank it will come during the first 24 hours. But I've used it maybe 10 to 15 times over the years. Only once (and it was my fault) I had a problem because I got complacent and didn't increase surface agitation on day 1 of the dose in a heavily planted tank during the heatwave and water temp was 84F (less available oxygen). There wasn't enough surface agitation and it was the perfect storm for a problem. I woke up to 2 dead fish and 75% of the fish gasping at the surface. You won't have this problem.

I like this medication. There is mixed reviews on whether it works on external parasites, but because it is usually so safe to use and not toxic for the set up, it's good. It specialises in killing parasitic worms, but I think people do use it for flukes as well. Snails don't like it, most will die, but some snails do survive in my experience. I personally would always use the full dose as instructed. At first it might not look like it's dissolving in the water, but it does. It's not a problem for corydoras. Not sure about frogs

It's a clever drug that paralysis the parasite and the parasite starves to death.

 

[Lcc86]

I've used flubendazole a few times. A good aspect of it, is no impact on plants or filter bacteria.

Just be careful to maximise oxygen/surface agitation with it. That's usually pretty much the only thing that can go wrong. Especially if you are heavily planted, at night on the first day you dose, put surface agitation to the highest you can.

Flubendazole degrades fairly quickly in water, so if there is an issue with oxygen availability in the tank it will come during the first 24 hours. But I've used it maybe 10 to 15 times over the years. Only once (and it was my fault) I had a problem because I got complacent and didn't increase surface agitation on day 1 of the dose in a heavily planted tank during the heatwave and water temp was 84F (less available oxygen). There wasn't enough surface agitation and it was the perfect storm for a problem. I woke up to 2 dead fish and 75% of the fish gasping at the surface. You won't have this problem.

I like this medication. There is mixed reviews on whether it works on external parasites, but because it is usually so safe to use and not toxic for the set up, it's good. It specialises in killing parasitic worms, but I think people do use it for flukes as well. Snails don't like it, most will die, but some snails do survive in my experience. I personally would always use the full dose as instructed. At first it might not look like it's dissolving in the water, but it does. It's not a problem for corydoras. Not sure about frogs

It's a clever drug that paralysis the parasite and the parasite starves to death.

Thank you, I have a filter and an air stone running 24/7 so will make sure I keep an eye when I do add it. Unfortunately it hasn't arrived today but the salt did. Hoping it arrives tomorrow although I'm out all day again for work so realistically may not get to dose until Friday as I'd rather not dose it right before bed just in case.

So this morning I set up a third tank on my bedroom floor,moved my frogs, all my floating plants and java fern in there (I had a second filter already running on my betta tank so used that). Unfortunately could only find 3 of my 4 ADF's, I practically tore the main tank apart to try and find the 4th but he's nowhere to be seen I actually lost an ADF a couple of weeks ago, no idea if the issues I'm experiencing now are related.

I added some salt into the main tank once I'd convinced myself he was definitely gone... I definitely saw him and fed him a couple of days ago. I just hope he has passed as the salt wouldnt be good for him.

The good news is that the 2 panda cories have stopped floating. The main one affected is still breathing heavily and lethargic but condition doesn't seem to have deteriorated. Am hoping his barbels can recover with time. The other one appears almost back to normal. I'll still use the fenbendazole when it arrives.

Edit - have also increased temp to 30°C overnight as well.

 

[Colin_T]

Don't increase the water temperature. High temperatures reduce the oxygen level in the water. Drop it back down to 24C.

 

[Lcc86]

Don't increase the water temperature. High temperatures reduce the oxygen level in the water. Drop it back down to 24C.

Ah okay sorry your earlier post said to heat up to 30°C, I'll start bringing it back down

 

[Lcc86]

Oh lordy I spoke too soon, I just found my missing ADF in the tank with the aquarium salt in it! I went to check on it and saw him sitting on top of a lotus leaf at the surface. He must've climbed out there to avoid the salt. Luckily I spotted him and netted him immediately, he's now in with his friends so hopefully will recover from his little ordeal.

 

[Lcc86]

Just got some pics of the main cory affected. Apologies class isn't clean as I stirred it up loads while searching for that frog earlier. His gills and head area look quite red in general, it doesn't come across fully in the picture but thought it may be relevant.

 

[Colin_T]

If they have white spot or velvet you can increase the water temperature to 30C (86F) but you don't use medications and heat at the same time, and heat doesn't treat other types of external protozoan infections. Heat only works for white spot and velvet.

 

[Lcc86]

If they have white spot or velvet you can increase the water temperature to 30C (86F) but you don't use medications and heat at the same time, and heat doesn't treat other types of external protozoan infections. Heat only works for white spot and velvet.

Thank you the medication arrived but have only just got home and it's 8pm here so am going to wait until tomorrow morning to put it in so that I can monitor the oxygen in the tank throughout the day.

 

[Lcc86]

Water change completed and tank medicated first thing this morning. Positively the pandas seem a bit more perky but given the initial symptoms and concerns I still wanted to treat it.