Oceanic Biocube Nano

GrayScale

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I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the 14 or 29g oceanic biocubes and how well they work for a nano reef. I really wanna get some salty experience under my belt. I know if I did the 14g nano I'd be able to do a shrimp/ Goby pair and maybe some mushrooms and zoas. I was also wondering how many extra compartments the 14g unit would have and possibly ordering the oceanic protein skimmer to pop in one of the extra spots. Would the lighting be adequate enough to support coral as well or would it be best to upgrade the tubes and try to add in reflectors and (maybe) some LEDs. I'm pretty sure I have a good grasp of everything else involved like the LR is your main filtration etc etc. Except for maybe the cycling bit. Does the cycling just occur naturally with flow through the LR or is it similar to freshwater cycling by adding ammonia?

Currently I have a 20g long freshie display tank and a 10g breeding tank. Eventually when I get a more permanant residence I want to get a 55 or maybe 75g reef tank set up with dual overflow and use the 20g long as a sump.
 
Grayscale-

I don't have any specific experience with the Biocubes, but you might look through the nano reef section of the forums. Seems like I've seen that specific setup in reading through those.
http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/forum/73-nano-reefs/

In regards to the cycling. The fishless cycle is by far the most popular and I highly recommend it. The general rule is that by purchasing live rock, you are going to have some die-off due to having it out of the water for transport. That die-off will fuel the cycle and get it going.

There are a couple of other methods for expediting this process, but if you get good quality live rock to start with, I've seen people with cycles as short as a few days. Personally, I added live rock in chunk's rather than all at once so my cycle took a couple of weeks, with mini cycles each time I added additional rock. Even so, if you are familiar with aquarium cycles you know that a couple weeks is pretty good. You will need good flow over the rock with no dead spots for optimum bacteria growth.

There's a great explanation of the whole process found here(a lot of detail about the process which you are familiar with but also a section of tips): http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=134114=The+Saltwater+Nitrogen+Cycle+a+brief+explanation+of+the+basics/

I know Steph (-Nemo-) has done ammonia dosing to expedite the process, perhaps she will chime in. If I remember correctly though she was using base rock to start rather than live rock. I've also heard of others throwing a table shrimp in there to kick it off. In my opinion (with very little experience, but lots of reading) good quality live rock with good flow is the key to a quick and successful cycling and it can be done with nothing else. I might add that I tend to be more on the cautious side and am leary about throwing any chemicals or anything that shouldn't be there in my tank. Perhaps others will chime in with their opinions as well.

Unfortunately with no experience with the Biocube I can't answer the questions about lighting and skimmer, but someone else certainly should be able to answer those for you.

Yuma
 
Thanks a ton for the response. I'm now starting to think that upgrading my 20g long would be more beneficial. More stocking options and more space to work with and I'd only need to replace the T5 tubes in there with an actinic and marine tube. I'm still undecided on if I need a skimmer or not and may just go for a fowlr until I can save up some money for the skimmer and to see what sort of potential hitchikers I may get. Grabbing a couple powerheads and keeping my hob filter for surface agitation and extra flow and maybe using it for a carbon/phosphate remover. I don't like how much flow comes out of it though as it disturbs the sand since it's not a very tall tank. I've read almost all of the nano tank beginners guides and a ton of journals which is why I think I have such a good grasp on things. I'm debating whether or not I should go for a small hang on skimmer just for kicks and giggles to make everything a little cleaner and do it right the first time.
 
Biocubes are great little tanks, especially for the price.. The the lighting included you can definitely do soft and LPS corals. They are pretty decent fixtures included.

Adding onto Yuma's post...
Live rock is definitely recommended, especially to cycle. It is also, almost always, the quickest way to cycle as well, with most finishing within 2 weeks.

If you decide to use your 20g instead, what you said sounds goo, between that or the biocube is really a matter of preference and what stock you want to keep. Two T5s on a 20G long gives you good options for corals later on. As you have mentioned, a skimmer is not necessary on these sized tanks, it just makes weekly water changes mandatory :good:

Can't wait to see your journal up.
 
Certainly the stocking options are more diverse with the 20gal long. In addition, the increased water volume is going to be more stable. Not to say the nano can't be done, many many folks are doing them.

Kinda funny, you're sort of at the exact same place I was when I started. Matter of fact, if you read my journal we almost say the same exact thing. I started with an HOB on the tank, took the filters out and was going to just use it for carbon/rowaphos as necessary and let it be additional circulation and surface agitation. I also started with FOWLR....but got a few mushrooms on some of the live rock I got and was addicted to corals pretty fast. Fascinating organisms. You will definitely want a skimmer when you get into corals (and you will) so I recommend. You won't need it until you get livestock in there though so it's not an immediate need and you can get by without one if you are religious about your water changes. Also, the HOB tends to harbor bacteria that hampers the cycle process so I've read. Once I got my powerheads in....I took mine out.

After talking to people here and some local reef guys, I ended up taking the HOB out. Second, the circulation is key. Recommended is 20x volume in gph. So for 20gal you'll want minimum 400 gph of flow. A couple or few smaller powerheads are better than one big one. Finally, I'm doing a HOB skimmer. I don't have the option for a sump because of the way my stand is built.

As Nemo says, lighting will be fine in either case. I'm still trying to get a grasp on the lighting stuff. LOTS of options and opinions.

So it's really gonna come down to what you wanna keep. Biocube would be a nice coral garden with a small fish or two and some inverts, snails, etc. 20 gallon would give you a few more options on fish and still be able to have some nice corals in there as well.

One other thing that will be vital. Get you a good saltwater test kit....it'll let you know when your cycle is complete and you'll use it all the time.

Yuma

p.s. RO water is a MUST. If you don't have a good place to get it you should look into an RO unit for your house. DON'T blindly trust your lfs like I did. Test the water and make sure it is good.
 
Thanks a ton Yuma. Definately clearing quite a bit up. My whole deal is cost at the moment. I'm already religious about water changes and there is a lfs not too far from me with ro. If the protein skimmer would help and allow me to do less water changes and spend less money on RO I think it would be abgood option. Which hob skimmer did you pick out? My main concern as stated above is cost since I know some corals here are $100+ and the fish are like $25+. Basically I want to set it up properly but also be able to make it less costly after the cycling has finished so I can slowly do my coral stocking like 1 or 2 new coral a month or just get a pretty good chunk and frag it. *sigh* I wanna do it so bad bur I don't wanna spend loads of money and I know LR is expensive and I'll need ~40lbs which is why I wanted to start fowlr so I could spend the money on lr and wait out on the skimmer. and unfortunately I don't know anyone around with a tank.
 
I completely understand the cost factor. I too jumped in without the ability to purchase everything up front and the desire to sort of take things slow.

So, a couple of things from that angle.

1.) Second hand can be your best friend. I say this from a couple of perspectives. First off, if you can find a local club you will likely find someone who is downgrading or taking out or upgrading a tank and can likely find live rock for much cheaper than I have seen online and at lfs. In addition live rock that comes from an established tank is an excellent source for beneficial bacteria. (oops, just saw you don't know anyone with a tank....but ask at the lfs there may be a local club)

2.) I can't tell where you are located from your profile, but if you are in the states, I've got a gentleman that I just purchased my skimmer from at a very reasonable price, and when the used one I purchased was broke in shipping, he was great about getting it taken care of and sent me a new one for the difference in price. GREAT guy to work with, I'll PM you his info.

3.) On the skimmer. Since you've read through the forums I'm sure you've seen several brands of skimmers mentioned. They range in price all the way up to several hundred. I know others have differing opinions, but what I have read, and heard from some of the local guys is the following. One of the things you want to look for is that it has a needle wheel pump. The venturi pumps work, but general consensus is the needle wheel pumps are better. Second, especially if you're going to keep corals, you can't go by the rated gallons for the skimmer. Every company rates their skimmers based upon a their own definition of appropriate bio-load. On some brands they will tell you rated for "X" gallons at low bio-load or "X" gallons for high bio-load but that it really only a guideline and is only a few brands. I've seen it recommended many times to go bigger than your gallonage. There are 3 reasons for this. One, it's better to be over skimming than under skimming. I think that in general we tend to overstock our tanks, so having a higher rated skimmer is beneficial. In addition, corals like good clean water, you want to get as much out as you can. Second, you're likely gonna upgrade your tank someday. You are then faced with upgrading your skimmer. If you buy a large enough skimmer, you may be able to continue to use it with a bigger tank. The third point I've seen is that if your skimmer is big enough(i.e. you bought enough skimmer for future upgrades), you could potentially only run your skimmer intermittently, thus saving wear and tear on the pump. Ultimately the pump is the only moving part and will likely be the first to wear out. All that being said, brand is largely a personal preference based primarily from personal experience. From what I read, it's sort of a "you get what you pay for" in that the higher quality tends to be more expensive. The two brands that are more economical that I've read about is the Eshopps and AquaC Remora Pro. I'm not endorsing either of these products, just echoing the reviews etc. that I have read. Personally I just purchased the HOB Eshopps skimmer (PSK 100H) primarily because it got good reviews and was within my price range. That's a LOT more skimmer than you would need even in the 20 gallon. They do make a 75 gallon version but even that may be more than you need. Hopefully someone else will read through this and offer an opinion/experience as well.

4.) Back to the second hand, and expansion on the local club. I understand that not all clubs are the same, but just for your reference, I plugged into my local club and have several guys that are more than willing to frag their coral pieces. The best part of this is that they are willing to sell them to me at a fraction of the cost of the lfs. I don't have a good selection of lfs in my town, so this is really a blessing. I bet you will find some folks in the hobby that are more than willing to do frags, etc. and will be reasonably priced, if not local, maybe at least not far from you. All that to say, you don't have to spend $100 on a frag unless you just really have to have one that is all grown out. Part of the fun for me is buying small and watching/helping them grow.

5.) You can also purchase fish and corals online. Ask around these forums at reputable dealers, etc. as many people buy stuff from online vendors. I know a couple that I have looked into, and the local club guys have shown me a few others. -Nemo- has a couple ebay sellers that she buys from and has received beautiful pieces. I'd much rather support the lfs if I can, but in my case the selection and pricing just isn't feasible. The nice thing about the lfs is if you make friends with them and want something specific, most places can get it in for you and you can avoid the overnight shipping costs. Guess the bottom line is there are Pros and Cons to each. Personally if quality is good and price is about the same, I advocate for supporting the lfs. I won't buy much if any of my fish/corals from lfs because of the quality(and sad, sad state of their tanks/livestock), but I do purchase dry goods and equipment there when I can.

Guess that's enough ramble for now so I'll close. Hope it's been helpful and you didn't fall asleep reading it.
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Yuma

p.s. One other resource that I didn't mention is Craiglist. I bought half of my live rock from there from a guy tearing down a tank in a neighboring town. Was a couple hours drive to get it and come back, but it was good stuff at a good price.
 
Fantastic! I just actually re-read your thread and saw the link to the skimmer. I actually had an eye on that one myself. I actually live in Northern VA about 45 minutes south of DC. I found some LR for about 3.50/lbs. It looks super porous and can get 35 lbs for approx $165 with free shipping. I'm thinking maybe some denser base rock with some of this stuff on top. I'll drop by my lfs today or tomorrow(I've gotten to know them quite well through my freshwater setups) and see about clubs or anything like that. They have a guy that works there that is very knowledgable on sw so maybe I could chat his ear off for a bit. Thanks again Yuma and Nemo!
 
$3.50/lb isn't too bad at all. I bought my first batch at lfs and paid (gasp) $11/lb....thankfully I only bought 6 pounds to start with. The rest I bought for between $2-$3/lb but I was fortunate to find a couple of local (semi-local) guys that were tearing down tanks and just sort of hoping to get something for it so they gave me a good price. Does it say online if it is cured or not? Obviously cured rock is better than uncured.

Yuma
 
It's from here:
http://www.liverockranch.com/catalog/item/6833052/7523900.htm

I'm a little skeptical of it and not sure if this is where I will get it from. I noticed too that buying all the rock at first is best since it can cause mini cycles for adding more after initial cycle unless it's cured. But even then there could be minor die off. I got your pm thanks for the info. Ill have a gander at some of his stuff.
 
Not sure on that site for live rock, as I didn't deal with any site online. Their sales pitch is good, and I like that it's not being taken "off the reef", but it's just hard to tell.

On the all at once versus in chunks. I do have marginal experience in that, although I really don't know that the first 2 batches of live rock I purchased were actually live. The last 2 batches definitely were. I did have a small, like one day, cycle after the third batch, but almost nothing on the final batch. The final batch was taken out of the tank, but in a tub of tank water and directly into my tank though so I feel like it would have been very little die-off.

Every time I re-read our ongoing convo I think of something else.
smile.gif


Sand. Don't buy "Live Sand". It's a waste of money (as many have mentioned, just don't know how a sealed bag that's has been on a truck/shelf for who knows how long can still support life). Most recommended is some good dry aragonite sand. And another thing I learned....after the fact....it's better to put your rock in first so that it is setting on the glass and nice and stable and then add the sand around, that way anything digging in the sand won't dig under and upset your rock structure. (apologies if you already know that from your current tanks)

Yuma
 
You've definately been great help and I keep reading over everything myself debating on what I wanna do and how i wanna do it and if I can afford it. The nice thing is the only fish I have in my 20g at the moment are 8 celestial pearl danios which I will house permanately to the 10g along with the plants in there. Then I can scoop out the sand, give it a good scrub down with water/vinegar mix, bin the filter media and buy new t5 tubes. I'm thinking about ordering the skimmer and powerheads now and store them in my closet for about a month until I get more money to get the LR. :good:
 
That just gives you some more time to look over your stocking options and get a good idea of what you want, what you can fit, etc. and then make final decision.

Your skimmer and powerhead choices would likely be the same either tank you choose.

Sounds good so far, looking forward to see it's progress!! As nemo mentioned, don't forget to start a journal.
 
Little did I know. My light fixture is a t5 HO with single reflectors for each light tube. It kind of sucks though because the clips that raise it above the tank won't slide in. They would raise it ~3-4 inches off the top of the tank which would work great me thinks.

Edit: with a little diy skill I got the clips in.
 

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