Nitrites And Nitrates

[turnnidge]

Hi all,

Sorry I'm sounding a right little new geek, but I went to get my water tested and I believe he said the Nitrite level is too high and after a couple of days this will reduce and will be ready for the first introduction of fish.

If I get this right:

Fish food and waste break down in the water producing ammonia.
Beneficial filter bacteria eat the ammonia and convert it to nitrite.
More beneficial bacteria eat the nitrite and convert it to nitrate.
You get rid of nitrates by doing partial water changes.

Also now what do the plants use nitrite or nitrate?

Is nitrates harmful to fish , and this can be kept low by 15-20% water change per week.

But to increase the nitrate you need more good bacteria to eat the nitrite, (hmmm maybe give it an actimel?)

 

[Nim]

Plants can utilize ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.. though I think nitrites are the least preffered of the lot but I am not sure.

Nitrates in high levels do harm the fish. As a biggener, one should aim for nitrates ideally below 30ppm but upto 50ppm can be tolerated however high nitrates can have various effects on fish including growth etc. so the lower the better.

Nim

 

[three-fingers]

Pretty much got it all .

Plants use ammonia, in absence of ammonia, they will turn nitrite or nitrate into ammonia before use.

Nitrate isn't much to worry about unless your keeping fish sensitive to it (like discus, or mollies in freshwater). Personally I think it's a general good rule to make sure the nitrate level in your tank is no more than about 40ppm above the water you use for water changes, and just to be safe make sure it doesn't go over 100ppm. Most common fish are very tolerant and can do great and even breed in high nitrate levels, but it's obviously better to keep then low .

Different kind of good bacteria, wouldn't look pretty lol!

 

[rdd1952]

You have the cycling part right food/waste >> ammonia >> nitrite >> nitrate.

Are you adding anything to the water to have gotten the nitrite in the first place? If you aren't adding some type ammonia source (actual ammonia, fish food, etc.) to start the cycling, then the nitrite could be in your tap water. You also have to add it until you have a bacteria colony large enough to handle the waste of the fish you get. There is a link to fishless cycling in my signature.

Plants use nitrate but they also use ammonia. It is possible to have a heavily planted tank and the plants use all the ammonia to the point that you have to actually add nitrate so the plants get all the nutrients they need. Nitrate is only harmful at very high levels. As long as you aren't terribly overstocked and do weekly 15 to 25 percent water changes, you should have any problem with nitrates. As a matter of fact, in the UK, 40 ppm of nitrate in the tap water is fairly common.

 

[turnnidge]

It's like going back to school with all this chemistry malarky lol but its worth it!

I am currently using Nutrafin Cycle by Hagen, and also adding a small pinch of flake fish food for bacteria to eat. I have noticed that algae is now growing on the gravel.

 

[cheesy feet]

Hi all,

Sorry I'm sounding a right little new geek, but I went to get my water tested and I believe he said the Nitrite level is too high and after a couple of days this will reduce and will be ready for the first introduction of fish.

Ay, we're all a bunch of fish geeks Well done though, since you've basically cracked the basics of the nitrogen cycle in a nut shell .
I would buy a test kit (API master test kits are usually reccomended) to moniter levels in the fish tank for the first few months...Over time testing won't really be useful sice people get to know how there tank works/what its needs are...But if there's a problem its always good to be able to test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate straight away.
Only add a few fish at a time to build up the good bacteria, as there will only be small amounts of each 1 with a newly cycled tank.

 

[turnnidge]

LOL Well still a geek in my opinion!! Just a fast learner, and really can remember some of this stuff from my GCSE's wow never thought I'd use that sentance!

I went to purchase a test kit today, but the place I saw said no need just bring in a sample and we can test it for you. I don't know if thats a good or bad thing for him to say, how much roughly would a API kit cost?

So all in all, nitrates wont be much of a problem if the water is changed regularly. Now I'm a little confused on whether the guy said nitrate or nitrite level is a bit high, as about 2hours before i done 50% water change due to the bogwood tainting my water lol

 

[jdyer]

About the test kit; assuming you're going to do fishless cycling, you'll definetly want to get one - you don't want to take a water sample into your LFS every day for ages for them to test (and I'm sure they'll get annoyed really quickly as well).

My LFS said the same to me, until I pointed out I was going to do fishless cycling; at that point, it changed to 'bring it in when you're ready to buy some fish, so we can double-check it's all OK'

 

[turnnidge]

I know that is exactly what I thought as I cannot keep going over to P@H which is about 15miles each way every day lol.

However I have been to numerous aquatic centres around me and Pets at Home in Hemel was just amazing! staff are so helpful, it looks recently refurbished the tanks are clean not over stocked of fish.

Does anyone know what www.seapets.co.uk are like??

 

[barbo]

hi i just thought i could add a bit of useful information on this topic as i am experienced with this stuff, buy yourself the interpet easytest kit for nitrite as nitrite is the fish killer, it is easy to detect as your fish will get clamped red fins, sit at the bottom of the tank and hide away behind plants or rocks and eventually die. do not change the water at all as the nitrifying bacteria has to build up in your filter and water, cycle is a good way to get the bacteria going but don`t be sparing with it as the more you put in the quicker your tank will establish. if you have a tank which is 200 ltrs+ get the tetratec ex 1200 external filter as this gives absolute perfect clarity in your water and even removes the algae out of green water.

 

[rdd1952]

Barbo, I hate to diagree but pretty much all of what you have said about bacteria and nitrite is wrong. First, nitrite isn't really any more deadly than ammonia and probably more fish are killed by ammonia than nitrite as it is the first toxin in the tank. It's like comparing whether it's worse to be killed by a gun shot or a knife wound. Either is bad.

Second, nitrifying bacteria do not live in the water. They colonize on surfaces where there is sufficient water flow to bring ammonia and nitrite to them. That is why the vast majority of the bacteria are in the filter on the media. You can change all the water you want and not harm the cycling process. In fact, if you cycle with fish in, you must change water to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels low or you will end up with a tank of dead fish.

Cycle is pretty much a useless product. The only products that seem to work are Bio Spira and Bactinettes and they are both refrigerated. I have tried Cycle and Stress Zyme and could not tell that they made any difference at all. The temperature extremes that the other products go through in warehouses and on trucks can run from below freezing to well over 100F (ever been in a sealed truck in the dead of summer.

Interpet Easytest kits are strips which are extremely inaccurate and expensive. You get much more accuracy and more tests from a liquid master test kit that will test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. A API kit in the US runs about $16 and will give you over 100 tests each. That's about $4 for 100 liquid tests where 25 strips will probably run you the same price.

And last but not least, the filter will not help with free floating algae (diatoms) that causes green water. You can put filter floss in and remove some of it but it will not kill the diatoms and solve the problem. It isn't harmful to the fish and will eventually clear on it's own (unless you have the tank in direct sunlight) but can also be cleared by using a UV Sterilizer which kills the diatoms as they pass through it.

Back to the original topic, it is much better to have your own test kits so you can test when you need to. If you suddenly notice a problem in the tank one evening, you can't just run to the fish store with a water sample. You need to be able to test then. And during cycling, it's even more important as you have to keep the ammonia and nitrite low if there are fish in the tank.

The algae you are seeing is probably brown algae that gets on the decorations and gravel. It is normal in a new tank and is actually diatoms that feed on the silica that is leeched from the silicone that holds the tank together. It will eventually clear once all the silica has all leeched out and there is nothing more for the diatoms to feed on.

 

[jdyer]

Does anyone know what www.seapets.co.uk are like??

Personally, I recommend them highly. I live near their shop, so go there quite frequently, but have also used their mail order service, and been impressed.

 

[kj23502]

You can change all the water you want and not harm the cycling process. In fact, if you cycle with fish in, you must change water to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels low or you will end up with a tank of dead fish.

Hi. What about 40% water changes on a 125 gallon tank? My hubby thinks, since I use a python hose and add the chlorine/chloramine treatment directly to the tank, I'm doing more harm to my tank than good. I make sure water temp and all is the same and everything!

Ammonia 0
Nitrite .5
Nitrate 5-10 ppm

What do you think? Hopefully I'm just about done cycling!

 

[rdd1952]

A 40% WC is fine. Some people with fish like discus do 50% or more daily. If you use a python, just add a little dechlor when the water starts going in and a little more at the end. That's what I do and I've never had a problem. I also try to get the temp in the ball park but some just fill straight from the cold tap. Most of our fish are a lot more durable than we give them credit for.

 

[kj23502]

A 40% WC is fine. Some people with fish like discus do 50% or more daily. If you use a python, just add a little dechlor when the water starts going in and a little more at the end. That's what I do and I've never had a problem. I also try to get the temp in the ball park but some just fill straight from the cold tap. Most of our fish are a lot more durable than we give them credit for.

Thanks, I was thinking that it was fine. Just thought I'd ask to be sure. It's been a LOOOONNNNGGG time since I had to cycle a tank!
KJ