Nitrites And Nitrates

[turnnidge]

Sorry getting a little bit confused now!

When we first introduce fish to the tank are you saying its better to do a 50% change rather than the usual established 10-20% change?

And how often does this cycle thing happen, does it only happen the very first time you get a tank, or change the filter media or even the whole filter?

 

[rdd1952]

Once you put fish in the tank, you can still do your normal 15 to 25 percent WC each week but you may need to do them more often (and in larger volume) to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels near zero if you see a spike. If you have done a fishless cycle, the reason for a large WC just before adding fish is to lower the nitrates which will be very high (well over 100 ppm) at the end.

 

[Nim]

The purpose of water changes is to keep the levels of ammonia and nitrite down during cycle. A 50% would only really be suitable if the levels are toxically high (more than 2ppm) but apart from that if you keep the levels below 1ppm by what ever percentage of change you want to do, it should be safe. Though my experience has been that doing water changes slows down the cycle but plenty of people seemed to have done research and concluded that it does not. But if Ammonia or nitrites are high then a large water change is the most advisable thing for the benefit of the fish.

Cycle takes place ideally when you setup the tank for the first time. However, it will occur again if you change the filter or the filter media all at once. So when changing filter media (I see no reason as I have almost never changed any filter media in my tanks for a few years) do it in stages. If you have 2-3 tpes of biological media, then only change one at a time and if you need to change the other one, do it after a month. This gives bacteria time to colonise the new media and avoid severe disruption of bacterial colonies. You may still get a mini cycle when changing media but these usually dont last longer then a week but testing should be done whenever a media change happens.

Change of filter: Add the new filter in the tank along with the old filter and wait ideally a couple of months before removing the old filter or even better if you can re-use the media from the old filter in the new one.

Nim

 

[turnnidge]

So if my nitrates are high, I can put fish in but need to do more water changes like 30% each day?

What is the best way to empty the tank without stressing the fish

 

[Nim]

No if your NitrATEs are high then you need to do a large water change to bring them down to below 30/40ppm and then add the fish. The nitrates will then gradually rise and you can calculate what level of water changes will you need at what intervals to keep the tank ticking under 50ppm, ideally under 40ppm but a lot depends on the level of nitrates in your tap water.

Nim

 

[turnnidge]

So currently if the nitrates are high dont get any fish? Sorry I'm getting a little lost now, as to how nitrates will drop

 

[Nim]

Nitrates will drop by water changes.

Basically you cannot get any fish as long as you have any readable reading of Ammonia and NitrITE. If you have had zero ammonia and nitrITE for a couple of days then Do a large 50% water change and measure NitrATES. If NitrATEs are still higher then 50ppm do another small water change to bring them to below 40 and then get the fish.

Nim

 

[turnnidge]

Well I'm off to get a test kit now, just done a 50% water change so hopefully i'm heading in the right direction now lol

 

[turnnidge]

Got my test kit! and whilst I was over there they tested the water too and wahey its perfect! so I now have 5 lil fishes 2 baloon mollies and 3 mollies 1 male

 

[madjoker14]

nice, i like mollies the best, especially the black molly with the huge dorsal fin that pops out, you gota love it

 

[turnnidge]

Well day 3 of having my little friends, and the nitrtite/nitrate/ammonia has started to creep up, i've tested the water using the api master test kit, and its all in the next colour from being '0' so is this a good sign and how much water do you think i should empty by?

 

[Gillymore]

It's like going back to school with all this chemistry malarky lol but its worth it!

Lol I agree....I could just about grasp the oxygen/CO2 cycle...but the nitrogen cycle was totally beyond me!! Plus I was probs too busy trying to impress a certain lass that I fancied!!! Easier to learn now that my hormones have settled!

 

[waterdrop]

It's like going back to school with all this chemistry malarky lol but its worth it!

Lol I agree....I could just about grasp the oxygen/CO2 cycle...but the nitrogen cycle was totally beyond me!! Plus I was probs too busy trying to impress a certain lass that I fancied!!! Easier to learn now that my hormones have settled!

wonder if Gillymore ever got his test kit?

 

[Gillymore]

Hoping to get an API multi test kit today waterdrop. At the moment I have been trying to test water with paper strips. 2 problems......
1) Difficult to observe the colour changes esp between the critical first two reading squares for nitrAtes and nitrItes..NitrAtes go from 0-10ppm and NitrItes from 0-1ppm.

2) Test strips don't test for ammonia levels. So I don't know how much, if any ammonia is being converted to the above mentioned chemicals.

I only wish that I managed to stumble on this board BEFORE I bought my tank. I could post the current water readings but until I get a test result for ammonia...the other results are inconsequential.

NitrAte.. 10ppm (could be higher but not as high as 25ppm).
NitrIte.. 0ppm (could be 1ppm..very difficult to see a subtle colour change).
GH...... >16*d
KH...... 20*d
pH...... 8.0-8.4

* denotes a little circle between number and d.!! whatever that means.

But NO ammonia reading so therefore I may as well test with a carrot for all the use these results are

Should I get the API multitest and just start again from scratch?

Awaiting yours, (or anyones) pearls of wisdom.

 

[waterdrop]

Hoping to get an API multi test kit today waterdrop. At the moment I have been trying to test water with paper strips. 2 problems......
1) Difficult to observe the colour changes esp between the critical first two reading squares for nitrAtes and nitrItes..NitrAtes go from 0-10ppm and NitrItes from 0-1ppm.

2) Test strips don't test for ammonia levels. So I don't know how much, if any ammonia is being converted to the above mentioned chemicals.

I only wish that I managed to stumble on this board BEFORE I bought my tank. I could post the current water readings but until I get a test result for ammonia...the other results are inconsequential.

NitrAte.. 10ppm (could be higher but not as high as 25ppm).
NitrIte.. 0ppm (could be 1ppm..very difficult to see a subtle colour change).
GH...... >16*d
KH...... 20*d
pH...... 8.0-8.4

* denotes a little circle between number and d.!! whatever that means.

But NO ammonia reading so therefore I may as well test with a carrot for all the use these results are

Should I get the API multitest and just start again from scratch?

Awaiting yours, (or anyones) pearls of wisdom.

Re the little circles and the "d" ...
Water Hardness (solids dissolved in water) measurements have a long history. Near as I can tell, the fishkeeping (and many other practical areas) still like to refer to German degrees of hardness, even though this is really one of four or so defunct measurement scales. The scientific one is mg/L (milligrams per Litre) and the old ones include British and French ones along with the German one. Anyway, in the German one (Deutsche Härte (German hardness) (°dH)) a single "degree" equals about 17.9 mg/L of, say, calcium carbonate dissolved in the water.

Anyway, enough with the fun! Back to you. Your strips are showing you may have fairly hard water which I'm just talking about because of the "degree" thing, not because anything is wrong. The KH (temporary hardness) is the most useful and indicates your water is well "buffered" and so will resist having, say, a pH drop when those bacteria start making nitrate!

By the way, here's a nice hardness web page:
http/www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html

OK, Yes, I always think there is nothing wrong at all with a newbie doing a "reset" in the "New to the Hobby" forum and posting again that they have such-and-so-size tank, an API test kit and have started up their fishless cycling and are on Day X and here's what their tap water is reading and here's what their tank water is reading and what does everybody think.

Nice talking to you again Gilly, ~~waterdrop~~