doggiebag
Fish Crazy
I really hope you guys can advise me, I am at my wits end with this tank............sorry for the huge post, but I am trying to give a full history of what is happening, using my minnow tank as a comparison so you can see tap water is not cause, as they are fine........
My tap water has the following readings
ph 7.4-7.6 from tap, 8.0 once settled in tanks after 24 hours
ammonia - trace, maybe 0.05-0.10
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 10, but sits in tanks at 20
I use the API master test kit (liquid)
WCMM tank (for comparison purposes)
same tank size and model, same filter, same gravel, same lights.
also cycling, taking 60 days to get 0 readings (yesterday), so it seems to be almost there, the nitrite never reached more than 0.50 in the minnow tank at any time..................it had daily waterchanges ranging from 10% - 50% depending on readings, nothing ever went above 0.50. Nitrate has yet to rise but then it has had daily wc so it was diluted, I am hoping to see them rise as today is first day of 0's and no wc...........
History
okay, I bought a 25 litre tank (aqua 40) it has an internal filter (aquaflow 100) and heater set to 80f............it has one betta in the tank.
It was not cycled as LFS gave me the usual chat about setting up, wait a week, get fish, the rubbish I now know to be untrue. I bought into the fantasy and got one tank waited the week got my white cloud minnows, bought second tank, waited, got betta.......
This has left me in the situation of having two of these tanks setup, one coldwater with wcmm and this one with my betta, both cycling. This is the one and only time I will fish-in cycle, next tank (yes MTS has set in) will be done fishless, it is a larger 35 litre for my minnows to be upgraded to, on with betta story. The betta tank is way behind the minnow tank in cycling as he had early finrot when I got him and had to deal with that before doing anything else, loads of waterchanges and meds later he was fit enough to start cycling proper. So to be safe, I replaced filter sponge in case meds would effect it and started over......I gravel vac both tanks about every 3-4 days. I don't overfeed, betta doesn't drop any pellets at all.
During Meds and finrot
Okay, the tank was set-up using the exact same gravel used in my minnow tank (even from same bag), it has two Azoo neon corals (soft silicone type plants), one terracotta pot and a spongebob easter island type head that he uses as a cave, plus 2 moss balls.
It was setup for around 2 weeks before ditching filter sponge and starting over after meds.....he had daily 50% for those first 2 weeks.
The readings during that time showed small amounts of ammonia <0.25 and nitrites starting at 0 and peaking at 1.0 after about 5 days.....after a 90% waterchange it would got back to 0 then rise slowly over the next 9 days to 1.0 again. This was when I decided to change the sponge in case the meds had ruined it, best to start fresh I thought......so I begin with new sponge and back to day 1
With New Filter Sponge (after meds) new day 1
Okay so the first readings in tank after 24 hours of new filter were ammonia 0, nitrite 0. I have done daily 50% waterchanges even if readings were low, as I was protecting the bettas new tail growth and I knew waterchanges were most important.
The ammonia has remained at 0 from the new sponge going in to day 11 of new filter. From day 12-16 there were traces of ammonia <0.25, maybe 0.10
The nitrite hovered around the 0.10 - 0.25 mark for the first 12 days, then I got a spike of 1.0 on day 13, so swiftly did a 80% waterchange and it dropped to around 0.05. From day 17 - 22 ammonia was 0. Nitrates were at 20, it sits at this in my minnow tank too.
Day 16 it spiked to 5 nitrite overnight so I immediately did a 90% waterchange and it dropped to < 0.25, around 0.20ish. I tested it every few hours and found it rising quickly. I did the 90% wc at 8am, by 12pm it had risen to 0.25 so I did another 70% wc, by 2pm it was back to 0.25 so I did another 50% change. by 7pm it was at 1.0 so I did a 70% and added Prime to help control nitrite and protect fish overnight against massive spike. it tested at 11pm that night, after adding prime with last wc at <0.25, around 0.15.......
next morning (day 17) it had held at 0.15, with the primes help and that day it was under control with the prime only needing one waterchange midday, adding prime back in....
Day 18 7am, it was back to 1.0, with the prime. Did a 70%wc and it dropped to <0.25, around 0.20. it rose to 0.50 by 2pm so I did another 60% and added prime at 5pm, it dropped to 0.10.
Day 19 8am it was back at 5 nitrites, even though prime had been added at 5pm previous day and it was supposed to hold for 24 hours....
I was only adding prime once per day, letting the morning waterchange dilute it out so I could see the nitrite rising to gauge how bad it was. I would add prime back in towards evening to control spikes overnight. Was shocked to see it go to 5 again with prime.
Did a 95% waterchange, added prime as it had risen so high overnight with prime I was worried to leave fish unprotected, tested at 0.05.
2pm 0.05, 6pm 0.10 did 50% wc adding prime to new water to see him overnight, 10pm 0.05.
Day 20 nitrite was at 0.50 by 7am 70% wc no prime added. by 3pm it was back to 1.0 so wc of 70% and added prime again, dropped to 0.15
Day 21 It was back at 1.0 despite prime............after reading Danny's cycling thread and getting advice from him and Andy, I drained the tank, removed gravel and really cleaned it well, put it back in added decor back an refilled, no prime was added at all, just usual conditioner (tetra). I tested throughout the day and it rose very slowly till at 8pm that night, 12 hours after gutting it, it was still only at 0.15, so felt safe to leave it overnight.......
Day 22 7am, it was back at 5 !!!!!! The gravel didn't help me, though it slowed the rise dramatically during day it still went nuts overnight.
I was now desperate, so I removed gravel again and reassembled tank. Nitrates were now between 20-40. It usually sits at 20 in the tanks but it rises to 20-40 whenever the nitrite spikes in this tank........
I have a Cunning Plan.......
I deduced maybe something in tank was causing spike.......could not be gravel as minnow tank has the same stuff and they have not had a nitrite issue. So put that back in. I left out all decor and fake plants. I plan to add only one item back in per day, leave 24 hours, test and see if one makes a spike. If it spikes overnight with only gravel then it must be cycling spike and my decor is safe, if it spikes with one item back in then it must be that object?......... However, no spikes may also mean the tank has cycled fully and nitrite naturally dropped off so its not a fail safe theory but will give me peace of mind over the decor.
Day 22 continues, 1 hour after stripping tank and adding back only gravel it reads at ph 7.4, ammonia 0.05 (tap water trace), nitrite 0, nitrate 20. Test at 5pm and readings are the same, didn't test ph though. Looking good as nothing is moving.
Day 23 (day of this posting)
8am ph now 8.0, sits at this in minnow tank too....ammonia now reads at <0.25, maybe 0.20, not sure why this has risen as it has stayed at 0 since day 17..........nitrites 0, nitrates 20.................it looks like it may be down to either a decor item, or the tank has finished its 7 day nitrite spike..........I did a 50% waterchange to keep ammonia low and added back the spongebob cave to see if this causes a spike later today or tomorrow..............
this is currently where I am at. it may be that the spike is over and it will continue to cycle, though I am not sure why I would not see ammonia when it had read 0 for days now........it may be that is has not even begun to cycle and its an object that has caused spike (though it was a huge one lasting a week out of 3, surely an object would cause permanent spike), this will be shown over the next few days as I add one item back per day, leaving for 24 hours then testing to see if it spikes.......if ammonia drops off again and nitrites stay gone and nitrates rise, if no waterchanges are needed then we may be done, phew!
Will update here daily, as I add items back in, one by one.
Updated:
Day 23 continued, 5pm test : all levels remain the same, ammonia has come back up to 0.20 again, so looks like it may never have even started cycling, or it has been disrupted...but nitrites remain at 0, so spongebob easter island head may be safe, the test tomorrow morning should tell. Will do small waterchange now to lower ammonia closer to zero and keep everythign crossed for tomorrows reading.
Day 24: 8am- ammonia .20, nitrite 0........spongebob appears safe, giving it 24 hours more before adding next decor piece. Why is ammonia at the highest readings since new sponge 24 days ago!
?? Odd anyway, 60% waterchange to reduce ammonia
found him with a hole in tail in the afternoon, so added salt in case of fin rot
Update 28/07
Day 25: ammonia 0.25, nitrite 0, did a 60% wc added small amount of salt back to replace what I removed, tail looking better - only spongebob in tank
Day 26: ammonia <0.25, around 0.10, nitrite 0, 30%wc hole in tail gone, all repaired...... - only spongebob in tank
Day 27: ammonia <0.25, around 0.05, nitrite 0 first day of no waterchange - only spongebob in tank
Day 28: ammonia <0.25, around 0.10, nitrite 0, did a 40% as I don't want his tail to start again, trying to keep water ultra clean to avoid further tail problems... - only spongebob in tank, left it with just him to see if it would spike after a few days, I think I can now consider him safe decor.....
Updated 29/07
Day 29: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, looks good but I did do a 40%wc yesterday so not convinced.......will leave water today to see what happens tomorrow. Added back 2nd decor item, lovely creepy skull, my betta was so happy to have it, spent all morning going in and out of the eyes lol
Updated 30/07
Day 30: did not do a waterchange yesterday as stats were great, first time not doing any waterchange so testing was tense.........ammonia 0 nitrite 0 !!! really pleased with this, 2 days in a row. Have not done a waterchange today either so will see if this holds out........betta looking extremely happy and well, spent all day playing in the skull, loving it.
Updated 31/07
Day 31
well, 2 days of no water changes and readings are ammonia 0 nitrite 0 !!!!!!!! Nitrite rising very slowly, (sits in all my tanks at 20, tapwater is 10, not sure why is rises to 20 in all 3 of my tanks?) was 20 maybe now between 20-40, a little above 20 but not as dark as 40, but there is just one betta in there so I would not think it would rise dramatically . Looking good, 3 days is a row with no wc.
I have added back in one of the azoo neon corals I had in there before. Now this will be interesting as these I one of the decor items I most suspected of causing the nitrite spike, so will see what happens over the next few days.......
Updated 01/08
Day 32
Still showing 0's woo-hoo, so far the neon fern looks to be okay, will give it a day or two more then I declare the crazy nitrite spike as cycling misfortune. My Betta boy built the biggest bubble nest yet last night, it was huge !! Now he's flaring when we go near him, guarding it lol so cute.
Just bought a Juwel Rekord 600 today, why do I do this to myself lol Now onto a stress free fishless cycle. Will do a journal of it on here, should be fun, wait for the cries of anguish on that one
Updated 02/08
Day 33: Got up this morning to find all his new tail growth gone again !!! Tested the water and what do you know, 0.50 nitrite. I think this confirms its the plant now, I had 10 days of 0 nitrite, then added the plant, next day no nitrite second day after 0.50. Last time he lost the new growth on his tail was the day of the first nitrite spike and here we have the same pattern again. I do think the huge nitrite spike was cycling, but I don't think it would have read so high without the plant contributing, and who knows how high it would go now if I left it.
I have done a 95% water change and removed the plant again, so we will see if nitrites stay or if they disappear........
Tested water at 12pm back to 0's.......will test again later
7pm tests, still on 0.......
Updated 03/08
Day 34: Tested 7am still on 0's.......definitely looking lke a confirmation that those neon corals give off nitrite in my tank after a few days.......very odd..........will see how the tests go over the next day or two, if it stays on 0's then its the neon coral......
Updated 04/08
Day 35: Tested 7am both on 0's......yes I think we can now safely say the neon corals do give off something that causes nitrite spikes.........tank seems really stable now its out of there, no, off to find some nice silk plants for my boy.
My tap water has the following readings
ph 7.4-7.6 from tap, 8.0 once settled in tanks after 24 hours
ammonia - trace, maybe 0.05-0.10
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 10, but sits in tanks at 20
I use the API master test kit (liquid)
WCMM tank (for comparison purposes)
same tank size and model, same filter, same gravel, same lights.
also cycling, taking 60 days to get 0 readings (yesterday), so it seems to be almost there, the nitrite never reached more than 0.50 in the minnow tank at any time..................it had daily waterchanges ranging from 10% - 50% depending on readings, nothing ever went above 0.50. Nitrate has yet to rise but then it has had daily wc so it was diluted, I am hoping to see them rise as today is first day of 0's and no wc...........
History
okay, I bought a 25 litre tank (aqua 40) it has an internal filter (aquaflow 100) and heater set to 80f............it has one betta in the tank.
It was not cycled as LFS gave me the usual chat about setting up, wait a week, get fish, the rubbish I now know to be untrue. I bought into the fantasy and got one tank waited the week got my white cloud minnows, bought second tank, waited, got betta.......
This has left me in the situation of having two of these tanks setup, one coldwater with wcmm and this one with my betta, both cycling. This is the one and only time I will fish-in cycle, next tank (yes MTS has set in) will be done fishless, it is a larger 35 litre for my minnows to be upgraded to, on with betta story. The betta tank is way behind the minnow tank in cycling as he had early finrot when I got him and had to deal with that before doing anything else, loads of waterchanges and meds later he was fit enough to start cycling proper. So to be safe, I replaced filter sponge in case meds would effect it and started over......I gravel vac both tanks about every 3-4 days. I don't overfeed, betta doesn't drop any pellets at all.
During Meds and finrot
Okay, the tank was set-up using the exact same gravel used in my minnow tank (even from same bag), it has two Azoo neon corals (soft silicone type plants), one terracotta pot and a spongebob easter island type head that he uses as a cave, plus 2 moss balls.
It was setup for around 2 weeks before ditching filter sponge and starting over after meds.....he had daily 50% for those first 2 weeks.
The readings during that time showed small amounts of ammonia <0.25 and nitrites starting at 0 and peaking at 1.0 after about 5 days.....after a 90% waterchange it would got back to 0 then rise slowly over the next 9 days to 1.0 again. This was when I decided to change the sponge in case the meds had ruined it, best to start fresh I thought......so I begin with new sponge and back to day 1
With New Filter Sponge (after meds) new day 1
Okay so the first readings in tank after 24 hours of new filter were ammonia 0, nitrite 0. I have done daily 50% waterchanges even if readings were low, as I was protecting the bettas new tail growth and I knew waterchanges were most important.
The ammonia has remained at 0 from the new sponge going in to day 11 of new filter. From day 12-16 there were traces of ammonia <0.25, maybe 0.10
The nitrite hovered around the 0.10 - 0.25 mark for the first 12 days, then I got a spike of 1.0 on day 13, so swiftly did a 80% waterchange and it dropped to around 0.05. From day 17 - 22 ammonia was 0. Nitrates were at 20, it sits at this in my minnow tank too.
Day 16 it spiked to 5 nitrite overnight so I immediately did a 90% waterchange and it dropped to < 0.25, around 0.20ish. I tested it every few hours and found it rising quickly. I did the 90% wc at 8am, by 12pm it had risen to 0.25 so I did another 70% wc, by 2pm it was back to 0.25 so I did another 50% change. by 7pm it was at 1.0 so I did a 70% and added Prime to help control nitrite and protect fish overnight against massive spike. it tested at 11pm that night, after adding prime with last wc at <0.25, around 0.15.......
next morning (day 17) it had held at 0.15, with the primes help and that day it was under control with the prime only needing one waterchange midday, adding prime back in....
Day 18 7am, it was back to 1.0, with the prime. Did a 70%wc and it dropped to <0.25, around 0.20. it rose to 0.50 by 2pm so I did another 60% and added prime at 5pm, it dropped to 0.10.
Day 19 8am it was back at 5 nitrites, even though prime had been added at 5pm previous day and it was supposed to hold for 24 hours....
I was only adding prime once per day, letting the morning waterchange dilute it out so I could see the nitrite rising to gauge how bad it was. I would add prime back in towards evening to control spikes overnight. Was shocked to see it go to 5 again with prime.
Did a 95% waterchange, added prime as it had risen so high overnight with prime I was worried to leave fish unprotected, tested at 0.05.
2pm 0.05, 6pm 0.10 did 50% wc adding prime to new water to see him overnight, 10pm 0.05.
Day 20 nitrite was at 0.50 by 7am 70% wc no prime added. by 3pm it was back to 1.0 so wc of 70% and added prime again, dropped to 0.15
Day 21 It was back at 1.0 despite prime............after reading Danny's cycling thread and getting advice from him and Andy, I drained the tank, removed gravel and really cleaned it well, put it back in added decor back an refilled, no prime was added at all, just usual conditioner (tetra). I tested throughout the day and it rose very slowly till at 8pm that night, 12 hours after gutting it, it was still only at 0.15, so felt safe to leave it overnight.......
Day 22 7am, it was back at 5 !!!!!! The gravel didn't help me, though it slowed the rise dramatically during day it still went nuts overnight.
I was now desperate, so I removed gravel again and reassembled tank. Nitrates were now between 20-40. It usually sits at 20 in the tanks but it rises to 20-40 whenever the nitrite spikes in this tank........
I have a Cunning Plan.......
I deduced maybe something in tank was causing spike.......could not be gravel as minnow tank has the same stuff and they have not had a nitrite issue. So put that back in. I left out all decor and fake plants. I plan to add only one item back in per day, leave 24 hours, test and see if one makes a spike. If it spikes overnight with only gravel then it must be cycling spike and my decor is safe, if it spikes with one item back in then it must be that object?......... However, no spikes may also mean the tank has cycled fully and nitrite naturally dropped off so its not a fail safe theory but will give me peace of mind over the decor.
Day 22 continues, 1 hour after stripping tank and adding back only gravel it reads at ph 7.4, ammonia 0.05 (tap water trace), nitrite 0, nitrate 20. Test at 5pm and readings are the same, didn't test ph though. Looking good as nothing is moving.
Day 23 (day of this posting)
8am ph now 8.0, sits at this in minnow tank too....ammonia now reads at <0.25, maybe 0.20, not sure why this has risen as it has stayed at 0 since day 17..........nitrites 0, nitrates 20.................it looks like it may be down to either a decor item, or the tank has finished its 7 day nitrite spike..........I did a 50% waterchange to keep ammonia low and added back the spongebob cave to see if this causes a spike later today or tomorrow..............
this is currently where I am at. it may be that the spike is over and it will continue to cycle, though I am not sure why I would not see ammonia when it had read 0 for days now........it may be that is has not even begun to cycle and its an object that has caused spike (though it was a huge one lasting a week out of 3, surely an object would cause permanent spike), this will be shown over the next few days as I add one item back per day, leaving for 24 hours then testing to see if it spikes.......if ammonia drops off again and nitrites stay gone and nitrates rise, if no waterchanges are needed then we may be done, phew!
Will update here daily, as I add items back in, one by one.
Updated:
Day 23 continued, 5pm test : all levels remain the same, ammonia has come back up to 0.20 again, so looks like it may never have even started cycling, or it has been disrupted...but nitrites remain at 0, so spongebob easter island head may be safe, the test tomorrow morning should tell. Will do small waterchange now to lower ammonia closer to zero and keep everythign crossed for tomorrows reading.
Day 24: 8am- ammonia .20, nitrite 0........spongebob appears safe, giving it 24 hours more before adding next decor piece. Why is ammonia at the highest readings since new sponge 24 days ago!
?? Odd anyway, 60% waterchange to reduce ammoniafound him with a hole in tail in the afternoon, so added salt in case of fin rot
Update 28/07
Day 25: ammonia 0.25, nitrite 0, did a 60% wc added small amount of salt back to replace what I removed, tail looking better - only spongebob in tank
Day 26: ammonia <0.25, around 0.10, nitrite 0, 30%wc hole in tail gone, all repaired...... - only spongebob in tank
Day 27: ammonia <0.25, around 0.05, nitrite 0 first day of no waterchange - only spongebob in tank
Day 28: ammonia <0.25, around 0.10, nitrite 0, did a 40% as I don't want his tail to start again, trying to keep water ultra clean to avoid further tail problems... - only spongebob in tank, left it with just him to see if it would spike after a few days, I think I can now consider him safe decor.....
Updated 29/07
Day 29: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, looks good but I did do a 40%wc yesterday so not convinced.......will leave water today to see what happens tomorrow. Added back 2nd decor item, lovely creepy skull, my betta was so happy to have it, spent all morning going in and out of the eyes lol
Updated 30/07
Day 30: did not do a waterchange yesterday as stats were great, first time not doing any waterchange so testing was tense.........ammonia 0 nitrite 0 !!! really pleased with this, 2 days in a row. Have not done a waterchange today either so will see if this holds out........betta looking extremely happy and well, spent all day playing in the skull, loving it.
Updated 31/07
Day 31
well, 2 days of no water changes and readings are ammonia 0 nitrite 0 !!!!!!!! Nitrite rising very slowly, (sits in all my tanks at 20, tapwater is 10, not sure why is rises to 20 in all 3 of my tanks?) was 20 maybe now between 20-40, a little above 20 but not as dark as 40, but there is just one betta in there so I would not think it would rise dramatically . Looking good, 3 days is a row with no wc.
I have added back in one of the azoo neon corals I had in there before. Now this will be interesting as these I one of the decor items I most suspected of causing the nitrite spike, so will see what happens over the next few days.......
Updated 01/08
Day 32
Still showing 0's woo-hoo, so far the neon fern looks to be okay, will give it a day or two more then I declare the crazy nitrite spike as cycling misfortune. My Betta boy built the biggest bubble nest yet last night, it was huge !! Now he's flaring when we go near him, guarding it lol so cute.
Just bought a Juwel Rekord 600 today, why do I do this to myself lol Now onto a stress free fishless cycle. Will do a journal of it on here, should be fun, wait for the cries of anguish on that one
Updated 02/08
Day 33: Got up this morning to find all his new tail growth gone again !!! Tested the water and what do you know, 0.50 nitrite. I think this confirms its the plant now, I had 10 days of 0 nitrite, then added the plant, next day no nitrite second day after 0.50. Last time he lost the new growth on his tail was the day of the first nitrite spike and here we have the same pattern again. I do think the huge nitrite spike was cycling, but I don't think it would have read so high without the plant contributing, and who knows how high it would go now if I left it.
I have done a 95% water change and removed the plant again, so we will see if nitrites stay or if they disappear........
Tested water at 12pm back to 0's.......will test again later
7pm tests, still on 0.......
Updated 03/08
Day 34: Tested 7am still on 0's.......definitely looking lke a confirmation that those neon corals give off nitrite in my tank after a few days.......very odd..........will see how the tests go over the next day or two, if it stays on 0's then its the neon coral......
Updated 04/08
Day 35: Tested 7am both on 0's......yes I think we can now safely say the neon corals do give off something that causes nitrite spikes.........tank seems really stable now its out of there, no, off to find some nice silk plants for my boy.
thats with my now 10 harlequins and 4 platies.
