Newbie trying to build a community

[tzulah]

Sorry in advance for the long post... I am a concerned first-time fish owner and struggling to learn how to do things right. I am very committed to doing this right though, and not half-heartedly. But I have a billion questions and no experience, and while I've been doing a lot of research, not all of my questions can be answered without some help I think.

My latest problem is just trying to build a community of happy, healthy, fish. Being a new fish owner, I'd love to have a tank of varied kinds of aquatic life, both pretty and entertaining. But most importantly they have to be happy and healthy. I am slowly learning about what species and characteristics mesh well together, but I think I have a lot of mistakes ahead of me.

Until a few days ago, I had 4 zebra danios, 1 small pleco, and a large golden apple snail. I also have 2 large bushy plastic plants, 1 small plastic plant, 1 live jungle plant, and 1 live amazon sword plant. I also have 2 ceramic aquarium decorations, one of which is now the home of the pleco. And the live plants are slowly being eaten by the snail (though I learned that adding occasional boiled lettuce or fresh cucumber seems to sate his appetite for fresh greens, and he's slowed down on his plant-eating). The tank is now 2 months old, and other than the plant-eating snail, there didn't seem to be any problems.

But then a couple of days ago, we found a new fish store that had more kinds of fish than we ever imagined. Of course we bought some. We bought 5 Endlers, which are just stunning little fish. But I don't know if they are very good tankmates for the danios... I think the danios terrified them the moment they entered the tank, and they were chased around until they found hiding places. Only 3 Endlers remain now, and I think 2 of them are starting to get used to the tank, and the danios don't seem so aggressive towards them, but I'm still worried. One hasn't come out of hiding yet, and the other 2 still keep to one corner.

What kinds of fish would mix well with the danios, or what kinds of fish would mix well with the Endlers? If these two aren't compatible, I am ready to bring my danios over to my mom's place tonight, since she just started a new tank as well and has a few danios in it.

I don't know how reliable the guy at the fish store is, but he said the Endlers would be ok with the danios, but we should stay away from things like guppies (or slow-moving, frilly-finned fish). If we keep the danios and need to stick to fast swimmers, what would be some good tank mates? And what about things like aquatic frogs, or fresh-water shrimp?

So much to learn! Thanks for any advice you can offer.

 

[gadazobe]

It's difficult to tell you what fish are suitable for your tank untill you tell us what size the tank is. Also has the tank cycled? Do you know what ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels are in the tank. Sorry I can't give a more specific answer, but I'll try to do better once you supply the missing info.

 

[tzulah]

Sorry, I put the tank info in my profile but forgot to put it in the message! It's a 20 gallon tank, and according to a knowledgeable fellow at one fish store we visited, a water sample from our tank showed that the nitrate, nitrite, ph, GH and KH are all stable and safe. I am not sure about ammonia (I don't remember if that was mentioned in particular), but he said our water was suitable for adding fish. I hope that means it has cycled. Our water is typically very hard here, and the ph is slightly basic.

So it's a 20 gallon tank, with a heater (we try to keep the temperature around 78F), a device that sucks water from under the gravel and recirculates it at the top, and a filter that sits on the back of the tank. And a fluorescent light that we turn on in the morning (around 9am) and turn off at night (around 10pm).

Hope that helps.

 

[clutterydrawer]

eyup

did you notice if the danios were actually harrassing the endlers, eg biting or chasing them, or was it just that the endlers were scared cos the danios are so fast?

 

[tzulah]

The danios were definitely chasing them. I didn't notice any actually get bitten (the endlers are awfully quick themselves) but there were some lively chases when the endlers first entered the tank until they found hiding places. Boy these fish can move fast. I haven't noticed any more chasing since, but the endlers are really shy now and don't venture very far from their safe spots.

I was sad to find the remains of one of the endlers yesterday, but only one, and another one is missing and presumed dead. What worries me is that I only found a piece of the one. I don't know if it just deteriorated really fast before I found it (they are so tiny), or if it actually got nipped to death first.

 

[clutterydrawer]

a possible solution, believe it or not, could be to get more danios. I know it sounds weird but as tehy are a schooling fish, when there aren't enough of their own species to occupy them, they will bully others instead. most people recommend keeping a minimum of six to reduce aggression.

however as endlers are slower, more placid fish it's possible that they would be stressed anyway by the danios' constant activity. in which case you'd have to make a decision to keep either "fast fish" or "slow fish".

 

[tzulah]

Well I think that answers one question well enough at least. Tonight if I can get the danios out of the tank, I will bring them over to my mom's tank to join her danios. Hopefully my remaining three endlers will de-stress and come out of hiding, and then I can get some more and try to figure out what other fish would be suitable tankmates instead.

The danios are fun active fish, but I guess we made a mistake picking new fish to add. What would be suitable with danios, so I can give some educated advice to my mom when she wants to add to her community too?

 

[clutterydrawer]

I'm not sure really. If you increase the school the six you could probably go with some reasonally active fish like tetras, bottom feeders eg corydoras and otocinclus, white cloud mountain minnows, maybe a school of tiger barbs (although these can be nippy too, the same applies to them, they need keeping in a school of six minimum to reduce aggression). If you like the danios you could also get schools of different types of danio, if you like them. pearl danios are very pretty.

I cant think of anything else right now

 

[kev_kb]

Surely Tiger Barbs would cause more trouble than Danios?

 

[clutterydrawer]

with the endlers, yeah

but he was asking what to put in the other tank, with the danios...I didnt think tiger barbs would be that much of a problem if they were in a big enough group

i dunno though

 

[The-Wolf]

Surely Tiger Barbs would cause more trouble than Danios?

Tiger barbs are ok with danios,
but only if enough of them are kept together.

The more in the group of tigers the less aggression
towards other fish and the same goes for danios.

Danios are great and as suggested they can be mixed and matched
so you can keep Zebra, Leopard, Pearl etc together as one big shoal.

 

[kev_kb]

with the endlers, yeah

Oops my mistake, missread the question

 

[tzulah]

Update -

I took the danios back to the store last night. After more and more research about these little endlers, I am finding that most experienced tank owners have found they do not mix well with anything due to their very small size.

I am so frustrated right now, and angry that the fish shop would sell a beginner these fish. Now I'm stuck with 3 itty bitty fish in my tank, and I don't know what to do. They are beautiful and I want to keep them, but it's looking like I will have to choose between a tank of endlers or a tank of mixed community. I doubt I will be able to take the endlers back, so I will probably just add more fish and have to watch them get eaten. Auugh.

Sorry about all of this, it is just a frustrating beginning.

 

[The-Wolf]

Update -

I took the danios back to the store last night. After more and more research about these little endlers, I am finding that most experienced tank owners have found they do not mix well with anything due to their very small size.

I am so frustrated right now, and angry that the fish shop would sell a beginner these fish. Now I'm stuck with 3 itty bitty fish in my tank, and I don't know what to do. They are beautiful and I want to keep them, but it's looking like I will have to choose between a tank of endlers or a tank of mixed community. I doubt I will be able to take the endlers back, so I will probably just add more fish and have to watch them get eaten. Auugh.

Sorry about all of this, it is just a frustrating beginning.

I'm sure that you can keep White Cloud Mountain Minnows [Tanichthys albonubes]
and also look into Lamp Eye panchax [Aplocheilichthys macrophthalmus]
both are very small and very docile. The lamp eyes are however very sensative and need a mature tank so add them in a few months time.
You can also have dwarf catfish [ottocinclus affinis] of corydoras as bottom dwellers. Additionally Dwarf danio [Danio nigrofasciatus] and glowlight danios [Danio choprae] both of wich do not grow much beyond 4cm and are not fin nippers like their bigger cousins.

HTH

 

[tzulah]

Thanks for the tips on suitable tankmates - that cheered me up and I will go looking to see what is available around here.

Another update -

When I went home for lunch today, what did I see? Zebra danio fry all over my tank! *boggle*


tzulah