New To Cichlids

[chr15_8]

great reply and a good read


good idea on the substrate and media idea. i carnt use the substrate as i had aqua soil under the stones for the plants (its a pain to try and stop mixing when your scoping it out) so i will use the media idea

sand ive had sand before and loved it (got dirty pretty quick though) and will be using the sand version of eco complete.

as you say add the least dominate fish.

out of the 3 fish im after which one would you add first?

pseudotropheus salousi
metriaclima callainos
Labidochromis caeruleus

would you add the 4 of each species at ones? or add 2 at a time?

introduction of fish
whenever i add fish i leave the bag for 10 mins to get almost the same temp. i then add water from the tank to the bag every 5 min's (small amounts) the process take me around 40 mins to complete with the light of the tank off.


dont think i will be adding crushed coral now as the substrate buffers the water anyway (but as has been pointed out before is not need)

i will be adding around 10lb of sand to 20lb of cichlid substrate if i remember correctly

thanks again

chris

 

[Tommy Gun]

out of the 3 fish im after which one would you add first?

IMHO, I would go with:

Labidochromis caeruleus
pseudotropheus salousi
metriaclima callainos

Although, I do think that you could swap the first two with each other...but only because I have yet to keep any zebras and have only heard that they may also be relatively semi-aggressive cichlids - although, probably a bit more 'moody' than yellow labs. Currently, I am in the process of growing out some P. Saulosi -which I have only recently been able to find and bring home after literally months of looking- and can't say enough about these fish other than they are my most current passion as far as cichlids go. Right now, I have seven of these cichlids in my 90 gal tank - one for absolute sure is a male and I believe one other may be as well, otherwise the rest are probably females (knock on wood). However, I used to have nine of these cichlids, but two of them turned out to be yellow labs...point being, be careful when picking up young Saulosi since they can be hard to ID as fry; or at least ensure that the person/store you purchase them from is willing to exchange them (which is always good IMHO because this way you can trade males for females, or vice versa, as needed)

would you add the 4 of each species at ones? or add 2 at a time?

Assuming that your tank can really hold 12 fully grown versions of these fish, I would add each species at one time, and add all four (or however many you plan to keep) at one time. However, you will need to be sure that your tank is 100% ready for each addition of fish...especially the first four - which it sounds as though you are going to be. In addition to that, I have found it to be VERY useful to be 100% ready to perform any emergency water changes and such, just in case. Like I said, at one time I bought 9 P. Salousi (supposedly 9 anyways) and added them to my tank all at one time. Even though this tank is very well established...I literally caught the previous occupants as I was acclimating the new cichlids...I did wind up seeing a very mini-cycle within the first two days, which was concluded by a minor bacteria bloom. IMHO, adding cichlids is one of the more tricky things to do since it usually means an above average number of fish are being added at once. Like I said before, you may not want to set your new tank up exactly as you have envisioned until you have all of your planned fish in and acclimated since this can allow you to 'bust up' those territories...which provides a similar benefit as keeping the lights off over your tank when you are introducing your new fish, which reminds me...

What you describe as your method for introducing fish is very similar to my own process - which is great to hear since this seems to be one of the most forgotten/skipped aspects of the hobby, at least that is what I have observed, which is a shame since it could save so many lives!

Lastly, I applaud you for taking the time to ask questions/research what you are planning to do with your tank...even on this forum I have noticed that a larger majority of the threads are the converse in that hobbyists are asking how to get out of some trouble he/she has fallen into because "I didn't know any better". You are one example I would always follow!

 

[dthoffsett]

out of the 3 fish im after which one would you add first?

IMHO, I would go with:

Labidochromis caeruleus
pseudotropheus salousi
metriaclima callainos

I'd stick with what Tommy suggested. I've kept m.callainos for about 2 years now and they are definately the bosses of my tank. They're in with l.caeruleus, p.acei, and a lone female p.crabro, the p.crabro is the only one they don't mess with. Don't get me wrong, the m.callainos aren't extremely aggressive, and there's nothing much more than some chasing, I just wouldn't add them first.

 

[chr15_8]

thanks you 2 have bene great help

Lastly, I applaud you for taking the time to ask questions/research what you are planning to do with your tank...even on this forum I have noticed that a larger majority of the threads are the converse in that hobbyists are asking how to get out of some trouble he/she has fallen into because "I didn't know any better". You are one example I would always follow!

thanks again still remember my first tank which was an overstocked 15 gallons community tank with clown loaches red fin shark few neons (the list went on) due to bad advise form my lfs (with me being so young at the time no internet access and my mum who didnt have a clue and listend to what the lfs suggested) basicly ive learned from my mistake and with africans if done wrong can easyly lead to death/alot of bullying etc


on a good note about 90% of my fish are moving out tommorow. all i have left is 5 khuli loaches, 3 red crystal shrimp, 3 cherry, 5 amano shrimp and 4 ottos. the shrimp will be going into a 5gallon shrimp tank. the khulis i have no idea about and the ottos will be in a fry tank. might have to let the khulis go but i like them so much!


anyway back to cichlids. ive found some slate i like. its 90 pence per kg or £2.99 per rock in a loacl garden centre about £25 from garden centre and probably an extra £10 from lfs (fish shop has better looking flat pieces)


under gravel jets.
anybody used them?
after reading a few articals ive been convinced i like them.

 

[dthoffsett]

under gravel jets.
anybody used them?
after reading a few articals ive been convinced i like them.

I haven't tried them, but from what I hear, they are great. Mbuna are big waste producers, and anything that will get the poo to the filters is a good idea.

 

[Tommy Gun]

under gravel jets.
anybody used them?
after reading a few articals ive been convinced i like them.

Hopefully we are both taling about the same thing (undergravel filters = under gravel jets), I might suggest staying away from them becuase, depending on the cichlids you go with, they may be apt to dig in the substrate - which could lead to a less effective UGF or possibly injury to your fish.

 

[chr15_8]

Hopefully we are both taling about the same thing (undergravel filters = under gravel jets), I might suggest staying away from them becuase, depending on the cichlids you go with, they may be apt to dig in the substrate - which could lead to a less effective UGF or possibly injury to your fish.

nope i think were on about different things.

the is ugj - mainly water movent at the ground to keep dirt of the floor and to help prevent dead spots alot of the cichlid keeps on this forum us the them (the one in the like)

http/www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ug_jets.php

chris

 

[Tommy Gun]

nope i think were on about different things.

Ahhh, I see now...sorry about the confusion. To be honest, I am actually using an extremely similar set-up in my saltwater tank right now, but obviously did not know what it was called. Now that I am better informed, in case I haven't mentioned it yet, you may be able to get similar or even slightly better results from using a substrate heating cable like the one you can see by clicking HERE. The reason I bring this up is because earlier this year I tried my hand at a planted tank and was advised to check into the same type of heater because may help to reduce anaerobic pockets. Since then, I have gotten out of the planted tank 'biz' for a while, but still use the heating cable (in conjunction with the 'regular' sort of heater to better ensure the water temp remains stable).

To the best of my understanding, the benefit(s) to using this sort of heater is that, because it is placed under the substate and because warm water will rise, creating a siphon-like effect - meaning it continually draws water through the substrate....just like an UGF does, but without the maintenance. Obviously, this water movement through the substrate means beneficial bacteria will be able to populate in more areas (versus filter media alone) and, in theory, the organic matter (e.g. fish wastes, uneaten food, etc...) is dealt with in a shorter amount of time. Additionally, the substrate heating cable would allow you to use sand as a substrate, which I assume cannot easily be done with the UG-jets since it looks like the intakes for the system could also intake finer substrates. Granted, I am sure that this can be made up for somehow, but as further support towards my opinion(s) on substrate heaters is that, while the UG-jets appear to 'suck' water in a relatively concentrated area, the heating cable would be more adept at creating that water flow throughout a larger area of the substrate. Make sense?

Just to clarify though, please don't get me wrong here, my intent here is absolutely not to change your mind on the UGJs since I can understand how beneficial they must be, but instead, I am just trying to play the 'devil's advocate' for a second by pointing out another option.

 

[chr15_8]

i have thought about a heating cable when i had my planted tank. what i heard of them they were a waste of money and results can be as good without.

its good to have people suggesting otherthings as it gets you thinking about different things.rather than the smae things. i think i pretty much convinced my about the ugj before i posted tbh and am now thinknig about running it thought an external (probably the ecoo) using a inline/external pump insatead of the standard filter pump.

thanks
again

 

[chr15_8]

tanks moving slowly! got no water in at the moment. have done the egg crate and ugj's. i need some glue to glue sand to the ugj's to help hide it.

ive been told that having

isnt the best idea because of the female saulosi looks the same as the lab. caeruleus so could cross breed (which i dont want)

so would these be ok? ive read a few different things about the demasioni.
Labidochromis caeruleus 2m+2f
Pseudotropheus demasoni
metriaclima callainos 1m+3f

if i was to go with these how many male to females demasoni could i have? 1m - 3f?

thanks
chris

 

[dthoffsett]

Pseudotropheus demasoni are a great little fish, however, they are so highly aggressive to their own kind that it is best to keep either 1 or 12+, they're generally peaceful with other fish with the exception of fish that look like them (blue with darker stripes). They are also difficult to sex, so with 12 or more you usually don't have to worry about multiple males as they should get lost in the crowd so to speak.

So if you want to keep demasoni, I'd go with:

15 pseudotropheus demasoni
6 labidochromis caeruleus

L. caeruleus & p.demasoni get along really well, and are a stunning combinating. Probably some of the nicest tanks I've seen keep these two species.