New tank question

[emg.]

Hi, im new to this aquarium keeping hobbie. I have a 4 ft long by 2 feet wide and about 2.5 high. My tank houses 4 turtles and currently 8 fishes, 6 cichlids and 2 roseline sharks and 1 pleco all are still very small and juvenile. I know turtles and fish dont mix no need to remind me lol unfortunately i already had these turtles before i got the fish. My tank been running for about 2 months now, first 2 weeks had a small HOB filter with the turtles only, week 3 i got 5 cichlds and a canister uv filter. 1 big water change has been done once in which 3 of my cichlids died due to cold water and chlorine show did not know i had to prepare the water first and was alot of untreated water and cold that went in, 2 cichlids survived and are now a little bigger and like to play and swim alot. 5th week got the other fish. My parameters im unsure cause.i havent.bought a master test kit to monitor my water. All my cichlids are still small about 2in long. No plants and no sign of algae anywhere, im a bit concerned as to how i havent done my parameters check (i will buy a kit this week) and not.sure of ammonia levels but still no algae on my rocks or grass, substrate is sand and medium pebbles about 1 to 4 in round. Is my tank luckily having a healthy cycle for these past 2 months ? Only casualties were the water change. Since the other fish new additions all seem to be having a blast swimming and feeding turtles amd fish [emoji5]

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[Byron]

I cannot remember what was mentioned in the older thread, but a couple things are problems waiting to happen here.

The turtles/fish you realize, and this must be resolved quickly. The disease issue in the other thread is quite possibly partly if not totally due to the turtles. I'll leave that as Colin has been helping you.

The cichlids are rift lake species and these must have moderately hard or harder water or they simply will not last. This too may be a factor in the disease problem. The soft water weakens the fish generally, and they cannot withstand other issues.

The Roseline sharks are I assume Denisons Barbs, Sahyadria denisonii. These are not compatible with rift lake ciclhids, they need softer water (OK for that here), they need a group of at least 8, and they attain 6 inches so a tank of 5-6 feet is best. Shoaling fish in adverse conditions (too few, and the other issues) will not be in good health.

Please work to resolve the fish problems before you lose more. They are under serious stress now. My comments are intended to help you by helping your fish, since you are new to the fish hobby. Unfortunately fish were acquired before the research, something many of us learned the hard way too.

 

[emg.]

I cannot remember what was mentioned in the older thread, but a couple things are problems waiting to happen here.

The turtles/fish you realize, and this must be resolved quickly. The disease issue in the other thread is quite possibly partly if not totally due to the turtles. I'll leave that as Colin has been helping you.

The cichlids are rift lake species and these must have moderately hard or harder water or they simply will not last. This too may be a factor in the disease problem. The soft water weakens the fish generally, and they cannot withstand other issues.

The Roseline sharks are I assume Denisons Barbs, Sahyadria denisonii. These are not compatible with rift lake ciclhids, they need softer water (OK for that here), they need a group of at least 8, and they attain 6 inches so a tank of 5-6 feet is best. Shoaling fish in adverse conditions (too few, and the other issues) will not be in good health.

Please work to resolve the fish problems before you lose more. They are under serious stress now. My comments are intended to help you by helping your fish, since you are new to the fish hobby. Unfortunately fish were acquired before the research, something many of us learned the hard way too.

Hello byron thanks for your reply, yes you mentioned about not beneficial to keep turtles and.fish together, ive been doing small water changes frequently so bio load isnt too heavy. My casualty for my 3 cichlids was cold shock and chlorinr together im sure. Since then the other 2 an albino and a blue one and are getting bigger and seem to be eating well. 2 months with the water circulating and the fish dont seem to have any ich symtoms. Also i got the roseline sharks and i read on some forums that they can do okay with cichlids if introduced with the cichlids still being small, mostly in between still fry and juvenily. The cichlids dont seem to bully them, the barbs actually chase the smaller cichlids around but seems playful rather than bullying. My cichlids will max out at 6 inch as well so basically they will all be the same size, in the forum said roseline are good dither fish so i assumed theyd be okay together. The big cichlid is an albino, she or he recuperated from the water change shock really well hopefully, she seems bigger i hope, or is being bloated bad, is quite a round belly ?

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[Byron]

Soft water fish like Denison barbs are not suitable with rift lake cichlids. Your advice to the contrary was inaccurate. The size of the adult fish is irrelevant, these fish simply do not and cannot live together.

I stay out of most disease issues, but something has occurred to me with the bloating problem in the cichlids. We don't know the water conditions (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) but with the turtles I would expect nitrate may be high, and this is deadly for cichlids. Nitrates is now also acknowledged to be a cause of Malawi bloat.

 

[emg.]

Soft water fish like Denison barbs are not suitable with rift lake cichlids. Your advice to the contrary was inaccurate. The size of the adult fish is irrelevant, these fish simply do not and cannot live together.

I stay out of most disease issues, but something has occurred to me with the bloating problem in the cichlids. We don't know the water conditions (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) but with the turtles I would expect nitrate may be high, and this is deadly for cichlids. Nitrates is now also acknowledged to be a cause of Malawi bloat.

I was reading a little about malawi bloat and seems that early symptoms include fish being lethargic and loss of apetite, which then it can turn into bloat. Also i did my parameters check and everything came out perfect which is kinda hard to beleive ?

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[Byron]

I was reading a little about malawi bloat and seems that early symptoms include fish being lethargic and loss of apetite, which then it can turn into bloat. Also i did my parameters check and everything came out perfect which is kinda hard to beleive ?

Not that hard to believe. There are many different factors that can cause fish disease/problems, and often symptoms externally can be much the same. This is why when experienced members here respond to disease issues they always ask for so much data/information; pinning something down is extremely difficult and often risky. But any one factor that can cause stress may be the root cause of a disease or other problem. Taking Malawi bloat, there are four or five possible reasons (going from memory here), one being their diet (they need green matter), another nitrates at or above 20 ppm.

 

[emg.]

Not that hard to believe. There are many different factors that can cause fish disease/problems, and often symptoms externally can be much the same. This is why when experienced members here respond to disease issues they always ask for so much data/information; pinning something down is extremely difficult and often risky. But any one factor that can cause stress may be the root cause of a disease or other problem. Taking Malawi bloat, there are four or five possible reasons (going from memory here), one being their diet (they need green matter), another nitrates at or above 20 ppm.

okay, ive examined all the fish i have individually and none seem to have the scales poiting out around their belly section all are swimming well, no signs of flashing all are eating well also, and no sign of swollen eyelids or mucus around their gills. I did my parameters once during gravel clean and another after i refilled the tank of the 20% i drained and both came out identical kinda hard to believe although i used api master test kit

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[emg.]

Not that hard to believe. There are many different factors that can cause fish disease/problems, and often symptoms externally can be much the same. This is why when experienced members here respond to disease issues they always ask for so much data/information; pinning something down is extremely difficult and often risky. But any one factor that can cause stress may be the root cause of a disease or other problem. Taking Malawi bloat, there are four or five possible reasons (going from memory here), one being their diet (they need green matter), another nitrates at or above 20 ppm.

Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph

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[emg.]

Not that hard to believe. There are many different factors that can cause fish disease/problems, and often symptoms externally can be much the same. This is why when experienced members here respond to disease issues they always ask for so much data/information; pinning something down is extremely difficult and often risky. But any one factor that can cause stress may be the root cause of a disease or other problem. Taking Malawi bloat, there are four or five possible reasons (going from memory here), one being their diet (they need green matter), another nitrates at or above 20 ppm.

Also to get back to the topic, i do understand that their diet contributes to a major part of their health which i did not know, i thought flish flakes from the stores amd thats all. But i will be buying plants from time to time and plant them so they can have some sort of vegitation in their diet. i have water turbulance from both ends of.the aquarium which creates a strong current, the fish love to swim toghether against the current from middle of tank to the edge and back but i only leave it on for about an hour or two cause im not sure if its required to have on all day

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[seangee]

Also i did my parameters check and everything came out perfect which is kinda hard to beleive ?

I am afraid its not possible for everything to come out perfect for soft water fish and rift lake cichlids.
If its perfect for the cichlids the soft water fish will have a significantly shortened life expectancy. If its perfect for the denison barbs your cichlids will die. And if its somewhere in the middle all your fish will all have a reduced life expectancy.

Sorry but there really is no way around this.

 

[Byron]

I completely agree with seangee. But on a couple of general things that I notice now...

It would help to get terms correct so everyone knows what we are talking about. "Parameters" refers to four things only: GH, KH, pH and temperature. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are not parameters, I suppose we could term then water conditions. So while the conditions according to the latest tests are good, the parameters certainly are not, if the GH is on the soft side which I believe it was in the older thread (?). This is going to impact the rift lake cichlids in a major way, and they will die not far down the road.

Using thee API kits is OK, I use them and many others here do, but the nitrate does have a peculiarity. Although the instructions say to shake Regent #2 for 30 seconds before adding the drops, this Regent needs a good two minutes or the test may not be accurate. I don't know if newer test kits may have resolved this issue or not, but to be safe, shake Regent #2 for 2 minutes.

On the diet of rift lake cichlids, you can use the algae/kelp based prepared foods. I feed these twice a week to all my fish as vegetable matter is good for the intestines regardless of vegetarian/omnivore. Omega One Kelp flakes is what I am currently using. They also make a sinking "Veggie round" which bottom dwellers love. Fresh (blanched) vegetables are good for vegetarian fish too.

 

[emg.]

I am afraid its not possible for everything to come out perfect for soft water fish and rift lake cichlids.
If its perfect for the cichlids the soft water fish will have a significantly shortened life expectancy. If its perfect for the denison barbs your cichlids will die. And if its somewhere in the middle all your fish will all have a reduced life expectancy.

Sorry but there really is no way around this.

Yea thats true, in an aquarium only water can be perfect for 1 type of fish hard or soft. Its my.first tank, hopefully i can get another tank soon to house the softer water ones, i really like the cichlids and barbs, but unfortunately i have to house them separate soon, but gladly i can add more soft that wouldnt survuve in hard water with the soft water fish i have now

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[emg.]

I completely agree with seangee. But on a couple of general things that I notice now...

It would help to get terms correct so everyone knows what we are talking about. "Parameters" refers to four things only: GH, KH, pH and temperature. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are not parameters, I suppose we could term then water conditions. So while the conditions according to the latest tests are good, the parameters certainly are not, if the GH is on the soft side which I believe it was in the older thread (?). This is going to impact the rift lake cichlids in a major way, and they will die not far down the road.

Using thee API kits is OK, I use them and many others here do, but the nitrate does have a peculiarity. Although the instructions say to shake Regent #2 for 30 seconds before adding the drops, this Regent needs a good two minutes or the test may not be accurate. I don't know if newer test kits may have resolved this issue or not, but to be safe, shake Regent #2 for 2 minutes.

On the diet of rift lake cichlids, you can use the algae/kelp based prepared foods. I feed these twice a week to all my fish as vegetable matter is good for the intestines regardless of vegetarian/omnivore. Omega One Kelp flakes is what I am currently using. They also make a sinking "Veggie round" which bottom dwellers love. Fresh (blanched) vegetables are good for vegetarian fish too.

Oh tought parameters in cluded everything surrounding the water condition. Got it, also the reason i got a softer read is cause i didnt do the high range ph test i did the regular one, which it says if its highr than 7.6 it will show 7.6 as highest, when i did the high range it came out ablut 8.2. Yes i coudnt really understand the last test after first bottle instruction says 'shake bottle #2 for 30 seconds' then says add bottle #2 so the 30 seconds is meant for #1 ? And after adding #2 shake for 2 minutes ? Bit thanks the only plant matter i have is alagae waffers for my pleco but ill look into some soon

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[Byron]

Yes i coudnt really understand the last test after first bottle instruction says 'shake bottle #2 for 30 seconds' then says add bottle #2 so the 30 seconds is meant for #1 ? And after adding #2 shake for 2 minutes ?

We may be getting confused here. According to the instructions I have, you add 10 drops of Regent #1 to the test tube of tank water, then cap the test tube and mix (shake a few seconds). Then you vigorously shake Regent #2 for 2 minutes (the instructions say 30 seconds but this has been known to be insufficient). After a good 2 minutes, then add 10 drops from this Regent #2 to the test tube, cap and shake vigorously for 1 minute. Then wait five minutes before comparing the water in the tube with the chart.

 

[emg.]

We may be getting confused here. According to the instructions I have, you add 10 drops of Regent #1 to the test tube of tank water, then cap the test tube and mix (shake a few seconds). Then you vigorously shake Regent #2 for 2 minutes (the instructions say 30 seconds but this has been known to be insufficient). After a good 2 minutes, then add 10 drops from this Regent #2 to the test tube, cap and shake vigorously for 1 minute. Then wait five minutes before comparing the water in the tube with the chart.

Ohh I see, shake the bottle containing the formula. Thought it was a pre reminder of how long to shake the container after your poured in the regen #2 drops, so basically pour 10 drops regen#1 shake for 10 seconds. Grab regen #2 shake for 2 minutes, then add 10 drops of it to the container, cap then shake again for another 2 minutes maybe thays why ive gotten 0ppm for nitrate

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