New Member With A Huge Problem. Help Me!

[Rummynose]

If you were living in a room full of smoke you'd be happy if someone would open the window to let in outside air, even if the air may not be ideal. It's better than the acrid smoky air that is burning your lungs.

Your fish's gills are burning, their skin is burning, a water change will make them feel tons better. Even if the water has something in it that's not ideal, it's better than what they're living and breathing in now!

You will have to change their water daily! They may just have a chance if you are willing to put in the work! You'll probably see that there is light at the end of the tunnel and that the goal of just feeding the fish and enjoying them is closer than you think right now!

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Wow!

The number of inaccurate statements and overdramatised warnings in this one thread is incredible.

1. @ fluttermoth: Most ammonia is excreted from the gills of the fish (approximately 80%), not in the urine or excrement. Nor is the exchange of ammonia through the gill membrane anything to do with respiration.

2. The chelating compounds typically included in our dechlorinators are designed for levels in the tens to hundreds of ppm range. Suggesting that they're going to help with a source where the iron 'can be tasted and smelt' is ridiculous as that would mean concentrations in the tens or hundreds of ppt! Plus, the chelating compounds break down at acidic pH releasing the metals back into the water column! His pH is 6.7, so the effect of the chelating compounds will be even less.

3. His ammonia reading was given as 0.5ppm. At his pH, which I've seen mentioned at 7.2 and 6.7, so let's say 7, is only 0.5% free ammonia - about 0.003ppm! It's the chronic effect of the ammonia that's causing the problem, which we all agree on, but stop making such a hooha about the actual 0.5ppm reading!

4. Everyone is saying the ONLY thing he can do is massive water changes to solve this. Not so. He can continue with the infinitely more preferable spring water and just go heavily planted. Then he can comfortably do his water changes once per month with no ill effect. Almost instant solution.

5 He could get mature media as suggested but that won't solve his problem of needing to then make weekly water changes, which he's explained is very difficult to do. It'd be good to have the cycled media but it isn't going to solve his overall problems.

6. I'm amazed that everyone is suggesting that it's preferable to add the well water, which is undrinkable, to a fish tank when we all know that fish are vastly less tolerant of any poor water condition than humans are!


I know everyone means well with their advice, but jeez!


To B Rolls. If you want an instant solution and can afford it get yourself a lot of plants. I do mean a lot though. I can give you more advice on that if that's what you intend to do. And I really would not risk using that well water at all!

 

[snazy]

3. His ammonia reading was given as 0.5ppm. At his pH, which I've seen mentioned at 7.2 and 6.7, so let's say 7, is only 0.5% free ammonia - about 0.003ppm! It's the chronic effect of the ammonia that's causing the problem, which we all agree on, but stop making such a hooha about the actual 0.5ppm reading!

Hi PO. That's a good point.
He mentioned latest Ph of 7.2 and temperature of 77 degrees(25 C).
I came across a very good thread here about measuring toxic ammonia, according to which if the above measures are correct, at 7.2 Ph and 25 degrees C, and ammonia of 0.50, then the toxic ammonia is actually 0.0879. At a Ph of 7 and same 25 degrees temp, the toxic ammonia is 0.0555. The higher these values, the higher the toxic ammonia obviously. And both these values are enough for fish damage, well presuming the calculator is correct.

Here is the link to it:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/154313-of-toxic-ammonia-charts/

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Those figures seem well off to me (I haven't analysed them to try to see why!). I use Spotte (the first to produce tables for this I believe) and Emerson et al. (the table from which Tim hovanec included in his Master's thesis). These say at pH 7, 25C the percentage of free ammonia is 0.57% not 0.111%

I'd prefer to believe three eminent biochemists for my information.

Of course, this is just semantics in a sense. The point is that the headline figure of 0.5ppm is not the great catastrophe you were making it out to be. No disputing that the chronic effect is ill or dead fish though!

 

[snazy]

These say at pH 7, 25C the percentage of free ammonia is 0.57% not 0.111%

The value you've got from the tables in the thread of 0.111(when ph is 7, temp 25) needs to be multiplied by the current ammonia level, so 0.111 x 0.50 = 0.0555 which is nearly 0.056
Regardless, the value you got in the latest calculation seem even higher?

 

[Prime Ordeal]

The figures in your link are percentages. So 0.111 is 0.111%. Therefore, 0.111% of 0.5ppm = 0.111/100 * 0.5 = 0.0006ppm!

The tables I'm taking my figures from are even higher as you say. If we use your figures it strengthens my argument.

 

[snazy]

The figures in your link are percentages. So 0.111 is 0.111%. Therefore, 0.111% of 0.5ppm = 0.111/100 * 0.5 = 0.0006ppm!

The tables I'm taking my figures from are even higher as you say. If we use your figures it strengthens my argument.

That's correct. I completely overlooked the percentage figure.

 

[B Rolls]

The figures in your link are percentages. So 0.111 is 0.111%. Therefore, 0.111% of 0.5ppm = 0.111/100 * 0.5 = 0.0006ppm!

The tables I'm taking my figures from are even higher as you say. If we use your figures it strengthens my argument.

That's correct. I completely overlooked the percentage figure.

I have a question about something that I may have overlooked.This aquaion kit comes with a filter that is only rated for 29g(not sure of the flow rate). Now when we moved I was having problems with it. It wouldn't draw water so I had to take it apart and try to hand spin the fan and it came back on. Now do you think that combined with a filter that is just enough to begin with and might not be flowing at its highest rate, could that in turn cause a problem? I also have had some minor issues with it in the past, but about 1 month ago, it would just sit in the water and the fan sounded as if it were jammed. It wasn't running dry either, eventually I got it to work but im starting to think that is one of the problems.

 

[fluttermoth]

I doubt very much if that is your problem, but just to be sure (and I don't want to have to trawl back through thw whole of the thread!) can you give the size of your tank (length x width x height) and a full list of your current fish, please?

 

[B Rolls]

I doubt very much if that is your problem, but just to be sure (and I don't want to have to trawl back through thw whole of the thread!) can you give the size of your tank (length x width x height) and a full list of your current fish, please?

tank is 30in.L, 12in.W, and 18in.H, My current stocking is 2 dalmatian mollies(4in.), 5 neon tetras(1in.), 1 silver lyre-tail molly(2in.) 4 asst. platys(2in.). As I said the filter may be broken. How can a broken filter not be a problem?

 

[snazy]

Yeah, a broken filter that stops intermittently is a problem. That depends how often it has been stopping, but if the flow is no good as well, then it is probably underperforming and causing additional bad water quality. You may need to look into fixing it or replacing it, but if you do, make sure you transfer all the filter media from the old one to the new one.

 

[B Rolls]

Yeah, a broken filter that stops intermittently is a problem. That depends how often it has been stopping, but if the flow is no good as well, then it is probably underperforming and causing additional bad water quality. You may need to look into fixing it or replacing it, but if you do, make sure you transfer all the filter media from the old one to the new one.

Well what I was planing on doing is I see that they have a marine-land emperor 400 on sale for $39.99. I planned on buying that, and also keep the filter I have now purely to keep beneficial bacteria in. I figured that would help in increasing the water quality.

I should also say that the filter given to me is a aqueon quietflow 20. I just found that out. Its rated from 20-29g. 125gph, but like I said I believe it is under-performing.

 

[snazy]

I think upgrading the filter if you have a possibility is a good idea for the size of the tank. 125G/h is about 475 litres an hour and personally I think this is quite low for a 29 gallon tank, especially considering it is not even working properly.
Keep us posted how the fish are doing

 

[Rummynose]

I must have missed something! The well water is undrinkable? I was under the impression the well water was fine!!!

 

[B Rolls]

I must have missed something! The well water is undrinkable? I was under the impression the well water was fine!!!

No that's why I was very uneasy about putting it in my tank. Its full of harmful bacteria, iron, and probably sulfur. The water has so much iron that it taste like blood. It smells like it has sulfur in it, I only use it to shower, and brush teeth. Otherwise I don't even trust it to make ice. The only way around it is to install a reverse osmosis system with UV lighting to get rid of the bacteria. I have toyed with the idea of doing that so ill have to see. I think I will order up the new filter. Can anyone tell me which is a better filter for my situation. I was looking at a marine-land penguin 350, or an aqueon 55/75 quietflow that pumps 400gph?