New Kitten!

[KathyM]

My Siamese cat has not been vaccinated against FeLV or FIV, as the vet said that Siamese cats generally don't tolerate it well (and he's an indoor cat anyway), but yes, both parents were tested, and the kitten will be vaccinated before I take him home.

You need to change your vet! As an ex VN, and someone who has a siamese cross and prepared to buy a siamese (ended up bringing home a rescue moggie instead!), the most important thing with all cats, but especially Siameses, is protecting them against disease. FeLV is common in Siameses from what we learned whilst looking for one/booking one. Any decent breeder will ensure the parents are tested and kittens vacc'ed (as with other breeds).

Can I ask what made you pick a Bengal to go with a Siamese? It's just they have potentially abrasive differences in personality/temperament and needs.

 

[Synirr]

The most important thing is protecting them against harm, not disease... this can include knowing which vaccines might do more harm than good for your cat.

Most feline experts do not recommend the FIV vaccine at this time as it is relatively new and has its problems, not to mention that the disease is pretty uncommon in the US at least. Any cat that has received the vaccine will test positive for FIV, so if it is ever lost and picked up by animal control, it is likely to be destroyed as a FIV positive cat. Also, the vaccine only protects 50-70% of cats that receive it, so a cat can actually get the virus after getting the vaccine... but since it is already testing positive, how would you know? Also, like the FeLV vaccine, the FIV vaccine contains adjuvants, which are implicated in causing vaccine-associated fibrosarcoma.

FeLV is DEFINITELY a vaccine I recommend for most cats, particularly since my grandmother's cat died of FeLV, but if your cat is indoor-only and is never exposed to other cats, realistically, there's no reason for the cat to get it and you'll be avoiding the 1 in 1,000 chance of fibrosarcoma by not getting it for your cat. FeLV can't be carried in on your shoes or anything like some other viruses, your cat would have to be in contact with another infected animal to get it. Seeing as siamese are high risk for vaccine-associated fibrosarcoma and hoppybunn's cat is indeed indoor-only, I think the vet/breeder made a wise decision.

 

[KathyM]

Ahhha anti vacc person alert *lol*. Seriously though, I'm not pro or anti vaccinating, I believe it should be a personal, but informed, choice. Your vet gave you the wrong advice, so it wasn't an informed choice.

Synirr claims that fibrosarcoma is a risk to Siameses. It is. About the same risk as to other cats. Which is not a high risk at all. But yes, as an indoor only cat, the only real FeLV risk is another cat bringing it in (hence me asking about the kitten's vaccs and parents' tests). That risk is very real and it is something you need to be aware of keeping one cat as an indoor cat and another as an outdoor cat (if you choose to do so). Vaccinated cats can carry it in to your Siamese too - a vaccine doesn't stop a virus entering their system, it just helps to send it packing.

I have three indoor cats. I personally choose not to vaccinate them (ahaa you didn't see that coming), but I do so knowing the risks and chances of anything happening. I make informed choices.

 

[Synirr]

Ahhha anti vacc person alert *lol*.

FeLV is DEFINITELY a vaccine I recommend for most cats...

Don't worry, I know you're just poking fun

I'm not against vaccines by any means, I'm in the same boat as you, which is why I posted what I did. Whether or not hoppybunn's decision was truly informed or not we can't say without knowing all the info he/she was given, but the vet's advice wasn't wrong by any means considering the circumstances. Siamese, as well as several other pure-breds, are at higher risk for vaccine-associated fibrosarcoma because they are pure bred. Line breeding increases genetic homozygosity, which is a bad thing if the line happens to carry genes that make it prone to certain types of cancers. There have been studies that indicate a correlation between known genetic predisposition to certain cancers and vaccine-associated fibrosarcoma. The vaccine triggers cancerous cell formation and because the cat has genetic immune deficiencies to cancer the body is less likely to recognise the problem and fight the cancer off itself like it would in a cat without this genetic quirk. That's why some vets choose to avoid the vaccine in certain breeds unless they are high risk (indoor-outdoor or in contact with other cats).

 

[KathyM]

Very interesting stuff. Like I said though, as an ex VN, never heard it. And fibrosarcomas are pretty rare, you've got to admit. Compared to the risk of FeLV coming in on an outdoor cat it's minute.

And yes I was poking fun, having a good amount of respect for both sides of the argument

 

[hoppybunn]

The most important thing is protecting them against harm, not disease... this can include knowing which vaccines might do more harm than good for your cat.

Most feline experts do not recommend the FIV vaccine at this time as it is relatively new and has its problems, not to mention that the disease is pretty uncommon in the US at least. Any cat that has received the vaccine will test positive for FIV, so if it is ever lost and picked up by animal control, it is likely to be destroyed as a FIV positive cat. Also, the vaccine only protects 50-70% of cats that receive it, so a cat can actually get the virus after getting the vaccine... but since it is already testing positive, how would you know? Also, like the FeLV vaccine, the FIV vaccine contains adjuvants, which are implicated in causing vaccine-associated fibrosarcoma.

FeLV is DEFINITELY a vaccine I recommend for most cats, particularly since my grandmother's cat died of FeLV, but if your cat is indoor-only and is never exposed to other cats, realistically, there's no reason for the cat to get it and you'll be avoiding the 1 in 1,000 chance of fibrosarcoma by not getting it for your cat. FeLV can't be carried in on your shoes or anything like some other viruses, your cat would have to be in contact with another infected animal to get it. Seeing as siamese are high risk for vaccine-associated fibrosarcoma and hoppybunn's cat is indeed indoor-only, I think the vet/breeder made a wise decision.

Haha thanks, I didn't feel like going into the whole big long explination, I should have mentioned that the vet my cat sees specializes in cats, and herself has mulitple siamese cats at home, I think I am inclined to trust her.

Ahhha anti vacc person alert *lol*. Seriously though, I'm not pro or anti vaccinating, I believe it should be a personal, but informed, choice. Your vet gave you the wrong advice, so it wasn't an informed choice.

Synirr claims that fibrosarcoma is a risk to Siameses. It is. About the same risk as to other cats. Which is not a high risk at all. But yes, as an indoor only cat, the only real FeLV risk is another cat bringing it in (hence me asking about the kitten's vaccs and parents' tests). That risk is very real and it is something you need to be aware of keeping one cat as an indoor cat and another as an outdoor cat (if you choose to do so). Vaccinated cats can carry it in to your Siamese too - a vaccine doesn't stop a virus entering their system, it just helps to send it packing.

I have three indoor cats. I personally choose not to vaccinate them (ahaa you didn't see that coming), but I do so knowing the risks and chances of anything happening. I make informed choices.

I should also add that I plan on keeping both cats as indoor cats, I have a big house, plenty for them to climb on and run around in , I think they'll do fine. I wouldn't even consider having outdoor cats in my area, we are prone to having coyotes and owls that eat animals the size of rabbits around here, I know people who have lost cats due to wild animals in this area.

 

[Saedcantas]

He's adorable and all of the associated "politics" made interesting reading

How about Rufus?

 

[Synirr]

Yeah KathyM, the risk is minute and it's DEFINITELY safer to get the vaccine than not if you have a cat that goes outdoors or comes in contact with other cats who do, but like I said, in hoppybunn's case that's a moot point. I have all my cats vaccinated for FeLV as they are frequently outdoors and in contact with other neighborhood cats, I wouldn't risk not getting them vaccinated for anything.

I'm a huge biology nerd, particularly when it comes to genetics, so that's how I know about the genetic predisposition to fibrosarcomas. I sit at home and read about this stuff for fun . I'm sure you are aware of many of the problems certain purebreds are prone to, and since these problems are a product of linebreeding the predisposition to fibrosarcomas should come as no surprise. That's the unfortunate effect of breeding to extremes

Sorry for the hijack hoppybunn
Since your new little buddy is guaranteed to be a helion when he gets a little bigger and comes home with you, perhaps you should name him Lucifer . My friend has a bengal, she says to watch out when Christmas times comes. Their fave thing to do is climb the tree

 

[lljdma06]

Since your new little buddy is guaranteed to be a helion when he gets a little bigger and comes home with you, perhaps you should name him Lucifer . My friend has a bengal, she says to watch out when Christmas times comes. Their fave thing to do is climb the tree

I still say Fifi is the way to go. Lucifer is just too obvious.

 

[Suriliel]

Cheetah! Name him Cheetah! Such a cute kitty! I want one

 

[hoppybunn]

Yes I hear bengals are predisposed to climbing and they love water. Hehe Lucifer I like it, Fifi too , though my mom calls the cat I have now Foofoo (like a dog).

 

[Synirr]

Binky
If you want to go with a less obvious (but equally wicked) name than Lucifer, here's a handy list of demons
http/www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/demonlistA-E.asp