My Fishless Cycle

Even when it's processing in 12 hours? So how do you make sure it keeps it's bacteria up when 12 hours of the day it has no Ammonia? Help, confused now! LOl!
 
Lol ok I think I need to be sure about this soon coz Ammonia has processed in 24 hours so I guess the next significant step is 12 :)
 
I think i'm slightly ahead of you in my cycle. Once the ammonia is processing within 24 hours, you start testing to see whether the nitrites pass within 24 hours. the next stage of that is making sure the ammonia and nitrite both cycle within 12 hours, I think..obviously i could be completely wrong :lol:
 
Once you have Ammonia and Nitrite clearing to 0 in 24 hours you then need to get 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrite within 12 hours, thats what you are heading for, once you got that you need to make sure you have that happening for a week (qualifying week) and that should be it. Keeping me fingers crossed for both of you that you get them double zero's soon. :good:
 
Thanks both. So even though I'm testing after 12 hours I stil only need to dose Ammonia once every 24 (and I guess I always test 12 hours after that)????? Will the Nitrite be being produced as soon as I put the Ammonia in by that stage then?


Did a little A test this morning just to see (would have been at about 15 hours) and I'd say it's 0.50 so not there yet. I'm not gonna bother putting it in my log coz I don't think it really matters at this stage, I was just curious. Didn't test Nitrite, will do it all properly this evening.
 
yes only dose once every 24 hours if the nitrite has fallen to 0, if it drops to 0 in 12 you still only add the ammonia on the 24 hour mark.
 
Thank you! I think I get it now.

I'm just peed off at the prospect of weeks of getting up at 7 at the weekends *sob*.
 
Yes, the others have answered the questions correctly. If you start 12-hour tests and find that ammonia has processed down to zero by 12 hours, you still don't add ammonia then, you wait and add at your 24-hour test (you don't have to test for ammonia at 24 hours obviously as its already gone to zero.) This is called "pulsing" I believe, by the waste water industry, where the bacteria are shown a zero period (I think of it as letting them get their appetite up :lol: ) Of course, zero is relative, because our test kits can not resolve small amounts of ammonia and actually, those unresolvable amounts are enough to be keeping the colony going! (Hint: think about what's going on once the filter is running "perfectly!")

In answer to your question about "cheating" a little and not ending the fishless cycle by reaching the ability to process a full 5ppm, I have a complicated answer. I feel its important to remember that we are not trying, really, to "match" the colony size to the initial bioload, we are trying to create a pair of colonies that are significantly larger and more robust than the initial bioload so that there will be no chance of them falling in to what we call a "mini-cycle" where we suddenly discover that one of the colonies (nearly always the N-Bac colony, the Nitrospira set of species) isn't really performing fully yet. Based on the feedback we get from our tests, we can see that the colonies don't always appear to perform in a linear fashion, sometimes, seemingingly to us a bit randomly, while they are still immature, they just suddenly don't process as much in a day and we see it as a sudden spike where before we were seeing consistent progress each day in how much/fast they could process. This is just part of the process of training the colony to be "robust".. to be up to size.

So I feel the proper answer to the "cheating" question is that we'd really like to always qualify a filter for 5ppm, even if we were going to only put one fish in there. But in real life, if you follow our cases here, you will find that sometimes we do "give in" in stubborn cases where the person is definately going to only 50% (say) stock and the final stage of the cycle is dragging way out. In many of those cases we've found that even though we switch over to having fish and treating it like a fish-in cycle, we often find the filter was up to it and we don't see further spikes crop up. It just depends on the case.

I don't think my Prime as ever appeared to have blue things in it when I pour some in the cap. It just appears clear. I believe Seachem has good tech support and you could try emailing them down in Atlanta (I think that's where Greg and company still have headquarters!)

The nitrite spike phase is -usually- but not always longer than the pre-nitrite spike phase. They are all somewhat unpredictable. It looks to me like you are now experiencing the fun and learning pay-off. Having waited a long time with your ammonia sticking at 2ppm you had a greater appreciation when it dropped quickly to zero after that. This is what I mean when I say that this long messy fishless cycling is a good experience for a beginner to use to get very hands-on with the nitrogen cycle and their filter. I feel that being forced to kind of "get focused" on it makes for a much better "memory" of the stuff in all your later years of the hobby. No other filter cycling will ever be as hard as that first one (of course, if you are constantly running tanks, they will all be "clones" in the future, not raw fishless cycles.)

~~waterdrop~~ :D
 
Thanks WD. I think most of that makes sense. I'll do my usual tests in a little while (bit early yet).

I think I have become properly obsessed with this for life. I went shopping with my friend today in town,looked at loads of lovely clothes (like women do)...........then bought nothing, made her take me to our local LFS and bought another lump of bogwood and showed her some of the fish I want! LOL!

I went to another fish shop today too, I was DISGUSED. I was actually told it was a good place but I don't know why people think that. Virtually all the fish in the tanks looked ill, there was LOADS dead and some you could see it wasn't even recent. I told the bloke and he said in that case I didn't have to buy anything there! :mad: It did though make me appreciate how good my local LFS is. Their fish look spectacular compared to that.
 
Day 28

Ok this is strange, Ammonia 0 and Nitrite still 5 as expected (I left it half an hour to turn green and it didn't) but my PH has dropped to 7. This isn't unusual is it? Is there anything I need to be aware of or do?

The wierd thing is my Nitrate though coz I swear that has dropped to 5 but that can't have happened unless I did water change (which I didn't) could it? Or could it be the Prime?

Ps I think the blue bits in the Prime are salts. They don't come out when I pour it, they just stay in the bottom.
 
Day 28

Ok this is strange, Ammonia 0 and Nitrite still 5 as expected (I left it half an hour to turn green and it didn't) but my PH has dropped to 7. This isn't unusual is it? Is there anything I need to be aware of or do?

The wierd thing is my Nitrate though coz I swear that has dropped to 5 but that can't have happened unless I did water change (which I didn't) could it? Or could it be the Prime?

Ps I think the blue bits in the Prime are salts. They don't come out when I pour it, they just stay in the bottom.

nitrates won't drop unless you do a water change, but i'm not sure maybe prime affects it.

In my blog, my pH dropped to 6.6 so i added 1.5 tablespoons of bicarp and it went to 7.8. Bare in mind my tank is 125 (not sure what yours is - so you'd have to check if you want to bring pH up :) ) waterdrop said to me 8-8.4 is perfect for cycling but it doesn't make a huge difference if any noticble one. It's just when it gets to ~6 it will stall the cycle.

Your coming up to your big nitrite spike that i'm still in. I imagine your nitrite testing will turn grey after 5mins soon, which is meant to be an indicator of it going off the chart. Mine goes a real bland grey colour.
 
Thanks. So basically I won't worry until if/when it drops below 6. I take it that when the cycle is over the PH goes back to the one it started off at?
 
Thanks. So basically I won't worry until if/when it drops below 6. I take it that when the cycle is over the PH goes back to the one it started off at?

If it is 7 i would keep an eye on it. Mine dropped to 7 and so i kept testing it and it carried on going down. I'd worry if it keeps dropping because as with mine when it started dropping, it didn't stop.

heres a graph:

untitled2.jpg


When it goes up suddenly is when i added the bicarb.

edit: I'm the same, if fish keeping was a drug I'd be in jail already :lol: I don't think cycling helps, it tests our patience far too much!
 
pH=6.8 is about the lower limit I kind of feel, below that I feel the process just slows down so much that something ought to be done. Now what should be done is something I go back and forth on. You can either just do a large gravel-clean-water-change (to refresh the tank with your higher-pH tap water) or you can dose some bicarb in addition to the ammonia. The bicarb generally sticks around and can solve the problem for a pretty long time. We've never quite decided whether we think there might be some side negatives to this (OM47 and I have wondered about it sometimes, at least I know I have) since of course you are putting Sodium (forms some sort of salt I assume) in there. The two things I can say about it are that it does go out once you do the big water change at the end of fishless and secondly, I did it in the fishless cycle I did on my son's tank and the fish loved that tank and have lived very long lives. So I have few reservations about using bicarb but its also true for people with pretty small tanks that doing a "giant" water change is so easy and also gets the nitrate(NO3) out of there (NO3 in high amounts slows down N-Bac growth) and accomplishes the goal that way.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Ok thanks guys. I may just do a big water change tomorrow then (may lol). :)
 

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