My 20G Setup

[Easy]

Seems like there is no perfect situation. The way you guys say it you basically can't keep much fish together. They have to be all the same species or they aren't gonna be happy because either the school is to small or the tanks gravel isn't smooth enough, plants aren't tall enough etc etc. At the store the fish are already in a tank with less than 6 so they will never know what there missing. LOL , hey I am all for keeping happy and healthy fish too but man we get a little carried away sometimes.
Maybe next time I will get a setup with a school of the same fish and design the environment replicate very little situation that they prefer. But this tank is going to be a community tank. This tank is not only for me but my wife and kids. There both looking at me like where are the fish? I'm explaining the fish less cycle to them and everything but....
As long as there is no bullying in my tank I will be happy. I hate that. So for that I am going to follow the recommendations on this site as far as male/female ratios and overstocking etc. I will even change my gravel for the Cory's. I don't want them to get hurt. But hey, they might not be as happy as they would be in a school of six but I think they will be pretty darn happy. Shoot they will probably have a better life than me in there.LOL.

 

[Easy]

Seems like there is no perfect situation. The way you guys say it you basically can't keep much fish together. They have to be all the same species or they aren't gonna be happy because either the school is to small or the tanks gravel isn't smooth enough, plants aren't tall enough etc etc. At the store the fish are already in a tank with less than 6 so they will never know what there missing. LOL , hey I am all for keeping happy and healthy fish too but man we get a little carried away sometimes.
Maybe next time I will get a setup with a school of the same fish and design the environment to replicate every little situation that they prefer. But this tank is going to be a community tank. Its gonna be impossiblento please every fish.This tank is not only for me but my wife and kids. There both looking at me like where are the fish? I'm explaining the fish less cycle to them and everything but....
As long as there is no bullying in my tank I will be happy. I hate that. So for that I am going to follow the recommendations on this site as far as male/female ratios and overstocking etc. I will even change my gravel for the Cory's. I don't want them to get hurt. But hey, they might not be as happy as they would be in a school of six but I think they will still be happy fishies. Shoot they will probably have a better life than me in there.LOL.

 

[Easy]

Oops

 

[dbanner]

When you see fish in small tanks and in lower numbers at times in fish stores you have to understand that they are only in the stores for a matter of days or weeks before being sold. When they are purchased they will be in the buyers tank for years (hopefully) so its more important for the buyer to have the required numbers.

Nobody is saying you CAN'T just have 2 or 3... We are just advising you that they are happier in bigger numbers. They will be a lot calmer and seeing them shoal and play together is brilliant.

When it comes to what fish go with what it can be difficult. Even more so if you have a very limited space to go for. It's not always so much a case of they will attack each other, it could be that certain fish prefer higher or lower temperatures than another fish or some need hard water whilst some need soft. For example neon tetras do much better in a mature tank that's been set up for a year or more, rams and discus like higher temps whilst redline torpedo barbs like cooler water

When I first started fish keeping I thought it was just a matter of filling the tank, waiting for it to heat up, add fish, feed them and then clean the water when it's dirty. I quickly found out that there is a lot more to it than that but when you get the filter cycled and get your stocking right it does get a lot easier and you can sit back, relax and enjoy your hard work

 

[Easy]

When you see fish in small tanks and in lower numbers at times in fish stores you have to understand that they are only in the stores for a matter of days or weeks before being sold. When they are purchased they will be in the buyers tank for years (hopefully) so its more important for the buyer to have the required numbers.

Nobody is saying you CAN'T just have 2 or 3... We are just advising you that they are happier in bigger numbers. They will be a lot calmer and seeing them shoal and play together is brilliant.

When it comes to what fish go with what it can be difficult. Even more so if you have a very limited space to go for. It's not always so much a case of they will attack each other, it could be that certain fish prefer higher or lower temperatures than another fish or some need hard water whilst some need soft. For example neon tetras do much better in a mature tank that's been set up for a year or more, rams and discus like higher temps whilst redline torpedo barbs like cooler water

When I first started fish keeping I thought it was just a matter of filling the tank, waiting for it to heat up, add fish, feed them and then clean the water when it's dirty. I quickly found out that there is a lot more to it than that but when you get the filter cycled and get your stocking right it does get a lot easier and you can sit back, relax and enjoy your hard work

I know what you mean. Well I have to have at least 6 guppies for my wife and daughter preferably 7-8. So I don't know how many Cory I can even get. Imy LFS has some salt and pepper Cory that are tiny says 1.5" max I suppose I could go with those but it seems like I wouldn't have enough room for 6 of them , I think 3 would be pushing it. It's only a 20g. I also kinda wanted a ghost shrimp
I did by new gravel today though. I got a browni/sandy color gravel that is a bit more rounded but they are still small sized pieces so I wasn't sure if this would help the Cory or not so I decided to pick up a smaller bag as well of some larger more round and smooth gravel that I figured I could put or mix in the top layer and that should do the trick.
On a side note. My nitrites are coming down there are still about 5 but hey at least it's not off the chart purple on the first drip anymore. Also the ammonia is a little hard to dose to 2-3ppm because I must be colorblind or that darn API chart is still hard to read. What I've been doing is trying to get the color as close to the 4ppm reading as I can. It's about 65-70 drops of 10% ammonia into my 20g to get it to there. Does that seem about right to you? Well any ways I dosed last night at 7 and by this morning at 8 the ammonia reading was zero. I think I will be their by next week end I am going to do a water change when I change this gravel so that will probably drop my nitrites right? Oh and also where should my nitrates be at this point. My nitrates have been slowly dropping as well and this last night they had dropped to 5-10ppm ( another tuff read, those three oarnge/brown colors are impossible to tell apart) LOL

 

[Essjay]

If you saw salt and pepper cories, ask the shop what their latin name is. They should be able to find out even if they don't know by looking on the list from their wholesaler. If the latin name is corydoras habrosus, then half a dozen of them would fit. According to fishbase, their standard length is 2.0cm, less than an inch. [Standard length, SL, is just the body not including the tail fin. Total length, TL, does include the tail fin].
But if the latin name is Corydoras paleatus, that gets much bigger, fishbase says 5.9cm SL, that's more than 2 inches and they'd be too big for your tank.

8 guppies, 6 habrosus cories and a few ghost shrimp would fit in your tank.



Your cycle is well on the way if the ammonia reading is dropping to zero in 12 hours. Keep topping it up 24 hours after the last top up, then it's just a matter of waiting for the nitrite to drop to zero in 12 hours as well. It does take longer for nitrite to drop than it did for ammonia.

It's curious that your nitrates are dropping though, that usually goes up and up as the cycle progresses. The reason for doing a huge water change at the end of the cycle is to get rid of all the nitrate that's been made. Are you giving bottle #2 a very very good shake before adding it? Like shake till your arm feels like it's going to fall off. Though you do have plants, they may be helping.

 

[Easy]

If you saw salt and pepper cories, ask the shop what their latin name is. They should be able to find out even if they don't know by looking on the list from their wholesaler. If the latin name is corydoras habrosus, then half a dozen of them would fit. According to fishbase, their standard length is 2.0cm, less than an inch. [Standard length, SL, is just the body not including the tail fin. Total length, TL, does include the tail fin].
But if the latin name is Corydoras paleatus, that gets much bigger, fishbase says 5.9cm SL, that's more than 2 inches and they'd be too big for your tank.

8 guppies, 6 habrosus cories and a few ghost shrimp would fit in your tank.



Your cycle is well on the way if the ammonia reading is dropping to zero in 12 hours. Keep topping it up 24 hours after the last top up, then it's just a matter of waiting for the nitrite to drop to zero in 12 hours as well. It does take longer for nitrite to drop than it did for ammonia.

It's curious that your nitrates are dropping though, that usually goes up and up as the cycle progresses. The reason for doing a huge water change at the end of the cycle is to get rid of all the nitrate that's been made. Are you giving bottle #2 a very very good shake before adding it? Like shake till your arm feels like it's going to fall off. Though you do have plants, they may be helping.

Red : WHOOT WHOOT ! Thats the best news I've heard yet ! I will have to double check with the store on the specieces but I am pretty sure they are the dwarfs or habrosus. I can't remember if they had six left but I can alway pick,up 1-2 of them later.

Blue:
I'm shaking the bottle a ton! And the test tube for 1 minute afterwards LOL. I hate that test, it's such a pain. Well I'm gonna go give the water it's morning test. I'll keep the updates going. Oh and I'll post a new pic of the tank. It looks WAY better now IMO, with the new gravel and minor reposition of the plants.

 

[SirGoodFish]

Easy,

First I have to commend you for coming to the boards for information. You will do much better going for advice on the boards than you will at Petco. You see, every time you talk to an employee you run the risk that you'll be speaking to a novice fishkeeper. On the boards you can get many points of view.

Second, I want to commend you on the Fishless Cycle. It's definitely the right way to get started.

I know you are excited about stocking your aquarium with many fish right away - but I encourage you to consider a small bioload and an aquarium that features just a few of your favorite fish. With fewer fish the water will not foul as quickly. And I am hearing you when you say that you have a job (and family) and so your time is limited for things like water changes and maintenance. It may also improve your enjoyment in the long run.

Two 20% water changes will be ideal once you have fish - so that's about 4 gallons twice a week. (Have you considered a python to make water changes easier?) But you will also want a little time for pruning the plants and removing dead leaves/debris. Monitoring the ammonia/nitrites/nitrates regularly is also a good idea. Plus of course you will want a little time to sit and enjoy your fish each day (my favorite part!).

Some of the most beautiful tanks feature plants and just a few colorful fish. They can be joyful and very relaxing.

All the best for your successful Fishless Cycle.

Sir Good Fish

 

[Easy]

Here are the new pics of the tank:

I think it looks much better. I hated the white gravel.
One problem though. I was reading that a very minor amount of bacteria was in the gravel and on the wall of the tank. But I have a feeling its more than a "minor amount" because I was clearing my ammonia in 12 hrs before the change, now its been almost 20 hrs and I am still showing green on my ammonia test.......looks like i killed off some bacteria..... and yes i put my filter straight into a bucket full of tank water. the changeover only took about 2hrs. So looks like i will be set back now
I was so hoping to get fish by next weekend. thats not gonna happen now.

 

[Bugdozer]

You could try a product such as Tetra Safe Start to re-seed bacteria.
*puts on flame-proof suit*

 

[Easy]

You could try a product such as Tetra Safe Start to re-seed bacteria.
*puts on flame-proof suit*

Nah, I'm gonna due this tank with nothing but prime and ammonia. I dont wanna dump a bottle of dead bacteria into my tank. I already did that and it didn't work. Thats how this thread started. I guess all I can due is wait now and remind myself the gravel change will be worth it in the long run. Plus I had to clean some algae since I was going way overboard with my Lights before.

 

[SirGoodFish]

It can take a while to get that bacterial culture going. Actually, I am doing a fishless cycle right now and it is taking me longer than expected, too. But it is still better. Because without it you would have to test the water and do a water change whenever you see ammonia or nitrites. It is better to let the bacteria do the work!

Your advantage is that you are starting with an established aquarium. Presumably they're already in the tank - you just have to let their numbers grow.

Oh, just a quick question - are all your rocks aquarium safe? Or collected from outside? They do look really great I have to admit.

Sir Good Fish

 

[Easy]

It can take a while to get that bacterial culture going. Actually, I am doing a fishless cycle right now and it is taking me longer than expected, too. But it is still better. Because without it you would have to test the water and do a water change whenever you see ammonia or nitrites. It is better to let the bacteria do the work!

Your advantage is that you are starting with an established aquarium. Presumably they're already in the tank - you just have to let their numbers grow.

Oh, just a quick question - are all your rocks aquarium safe? Or collected from outside? They do look really great I have to admit.

Sir Good Fish

No it was an old setup but I threw out the filter before I knew that where all the bacteria is. So after 1 day off fish in cycle I realized I could never manage the water changes so I took back the fish that were still alive and now I am doing a fish less cycle.
Yea, all the gravel is aquarium safe I bought both types from Petco and I rinsed out in a large bucket 10-15 times. Thanks for the compliment. I'm so glad I took the time to change it out. I also used about half the gravel I had before I had to much.looks much better now.

 

[Easy]

UPDATE: Nitrates are off the chart, HELP, LOL.
So I went to do my morning water test.
Ph 7.6- as expected
Ammonia 0- as expected
Nitrite off the chart 5+ was hoping to see it start coming down but no surprise
Nitrate 80-160 the color in the test tube is like cherry red so I'm guessing it's somewhere between the last to colors on the API chart.

so what happened? The highest reading I've ever had for nitrates was 20 but it is usually 5-10. So what would cause such a spike? Is this spike good or bad? I have to admit I skipped the Nitrate test yesterday because I hurt my shoulder at work and couldn't manage the bottle shaking.
Also I am supposed to give the ammonia dose now. I don't stop the dosing now do I?

 

[Essjay]

High nitrate is normal in fishless cycling. Every ppm of ammonia you've been adding gets turned first into 2.7ppm nitrite, and that gets turned into 3.6ppm nitrate, so every 5ppm ammonia you add ends up as 18ppm nitrate. It can build up pretty quick. You can end up with a very high level of nitrate, this is why you will need to do an enormous water change before you get fish, to get rid of all the nitrate.

Look at it this way, if your nitrate is going up, there must be some nitrite eating bacteria growing in the filter.

Yes, keep adding ammonia at 24 hour intervals now that the reading is dropping to zero. But add a bit less, dose to maybe 2ppm until your nitrite drops to zero, then increase back to 5ppm ammonia till both ammonia and nitrite drop to zero in 12 hours. That'll stop the nitrite level getting too high till the nitrite eating bacteria have grown some more. Once they are processing the nitrite made from that lower amount of ammonia, you can increase the amount of ammonia you add and it won't take them long to get rid of the extra nitrite that'll be made.