My 20G Setup

[Easy]

I was doing 90% daily water changes on my 5 foot, 125 gallon to cycle it as well as weekly 50% changes on my 40 gallon turtle tank (already cycled). I was very happy when my local fish store donated me some mature media for my filter, made life so much easier.

And I have a dog (Alaskan malamute) as well as 3 guinea pigs, 2 chinchillas and 5 degus to clean out weekly. Chinchillas take longest as their cage is 4 feet in length, 3 feet wide and 6 feet high. Lol degus cage is slightly smaller

If thats not enough iv got my 50 hr a week (doesn't include the 9 hours a week traveling to and from work) job and an 8 yr old daughter lol tired at the end of every day day doesn't come close lol

I can totally see how you feel but then it's what we must do if we want to keep fish and so on lol

Well, I just couldn't manage the water changes...... Lost the last 2 last night
Ammonia went in last night. Although I am still waiting on my API master kit to be delivered so I am using a separate ammonia test that is less accurate. I got the reading somewhere between 2-4 ppm but really tuff to tell.

Easy - that's the brand most Americans recommend, though being in the UK I can't speak from personal experience.

Pheww!!! Thank you for confirming that for me.

 

[dbanner]

It is hard to keep on top of things to start with but as soon as the tank/filter is cycled things will get so much easier. Once your readings are stable you will only have to change around 30-40% of the water weekly and clean filter media in tank water around once a month if you have an internal filter or around once every 3 months or so if you have an external/canister filter.

for example mine are

Ammonia - 0
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 20

With a ph of 8.0

I now do a weekly 40% water change and gravel vac and then add 5ml of seachem prime dechloranater to 200 litres of new water. I rinse the filter media in old tank water around every 3-4 months.

 

[Easy]

Update:
Ammonia tested is reading .5 after 24 hrs. So should be clear by tomorrow morning which is good I guess. Must mean I don't have to far to go. It is a little tuff to tell though since I only have inaccurate test kit at the moment. Nitrite definitely rose from about 1-1.5 yesterday to somewhere I say 2-3. Nitrate is about the same. Correct me if I am wrong. Once my ammonia reading is zero I redoes ammonia to somewhere between 2-4 ppm and then repeat until clear in a 12 hr span. I was also unsure about the nitrite. Do I need to be doing water changes to get rid of the nitrite ?

Side note: Petco had no clue and gave me weird looks when I asked if I could have some " mature filter media" t
Even after I explained it to them they said that it wasn't possible for them to remove there filtered ...... In fact when I was explaining how my fish died and that they did not tell me how to cycle or care for these fish they had a blank stare in the eyes. They have no clue about cycling or anything. It is extremely sad when a person can go online and find a forum such as this and in basically an hour or 2 understand the cycling process but a major chain like Petco can't take 5 minutes to teach there employees the basics?..... In petcos defense it is very hard to find good help. At least where I live in northern California. The employees all have an IQ of your run of the mill fish flakes. They are generally either 1 of 3 types. ex cons with tear drop tattoos under there eye, 16 year old little girls or 40 year old mentally retarded folk. Example:so after my failed attempt at getting mature media I returned some of my remaing fish to save them. And the guy behind thencounterngives me like 50 bucks for the 5 fish I returned. Hey dude I think you made a mistake I only paid like 10 bucks for these.... He was clueless I had to help him use his own cash register.
Sites like this are a godsend. Obviously not gonna get much help from Petco......

If you do recommend the water change, can I use my prime to dechlorinate? Because it says on the bottle that it also removes nitrite and nitrates. Do I want to remove the nitrates? Still a little confused

 

[Essjay]

Keep adding ammonia when the reading drops to zero. If it drops within 24 hours, wait till the same time of day as the last dose before adding more. You only dose ammonia once a day even though the ammonia will eventually drop to zero faster than that. You keep adding ammonia until nitrite also drops to zero. When both are dropping to zero within 12 hours of adding a dose, that's when the cycle has finished, though it is a very good idea to wait for a week of double zeros before getting fish as sometimes one or other shows up again for a couple of days. You will need to dose ammonia daily for that qualifying week.

There is some evidence recently that a very high nitrite level can inhibit the growth of the nitrite eating bacteria. If your nitrite reading goes off the top of the scale, you could try doing a water change to lower it to somewhere on the scale.


Edit: not sure about the prime question as I don't use it.

 

[Easy]

Keep adding ammonia when the reading drops to zero. If it drops within 24 hours, wait till the same time of day as the last dose before adding more. You only dose ammonia once a day even though the ammonia will eventually drop to zero faster than that. You keep adding ammonia until nitrite also drops to zero. When both are dropping to zero within 12 hours of adding a dose, that's when the cycle has finished, though it is a very good idea to wait for a week of double zeros before getting fish as sometimes one or other shows up again for a couple of days. You will need to dose ammonia daily for that qualifying week.

There is some evidence recently that a very high nitrite level can inhibit the growth of the nitrite eating bacteria. If your nitrite reading goes off the top of the scale, you could try doing a water change to lower it to somewhere on the scale.


Edit: not sure about the prime question as I don't use it.

Thanks for the info.Today I bought a new heater,gravel vac and algae scraper. Did a 50% water change, cleaned the glass, vacuumed some of the dead leaves and the grave a bit, then re-dosed my ammonia. The tank is looking great right now. I turned the new heater up to 83-85 degrees , the water is clear and i think it wont be long now I hope.....because I CANNOT take this fish less cycle. It is TORTURE! LOL. I also picked up a new tank for my daughters room at PetSmart. I think it was a great deal. 10g glass complete kit with Bio Wheel, heater, hood ,light etc... and LED lights for 59.99 Not a bad deal I dont think. I am actually kinda jealous now. I want Led Lighting too! haha. I havent set that one up yet, were going to pick up a stand next week then I will start cycling it. Well anyways here is a picture of my 20g ready and waiting for her cycle to finish. I have 3 live plants. I think the one on the left is a java fern and i am not sure what the other 2 are but one is small and growing real slow and the other in back behind the drift wood is large and growing like crazy. maybe if i get some close ups you guys can i identify them.

 

[Easy]

So today I noticed what look like some kind of larvae/worm ugh what's next. Ok so they are like 1/16 " translucent and are floating about in the current. Looks like debri but upon closer examination they are twitching almost like a mosquito larvae but it is a more continuous motion......please help. What the heck are these? Where did I get them? Are they dangerous? And how do I get rid of them? I fished out 5-6 of them with my net. Looks like I got most of them. I guess I will find out in the morning if I have a an explosion of worms or some crud. ....anybody have an idea of what it is? I tried to take a picture but they are to small and translucent.

Actually now I noticed they. At be slipping through my net. You can't see them in the net once you take the out. In fact without the light of the aquarium you couldn't see them

Just got home from work today And It doesn't look like it got worse or anything like that. I did see one or two though. I wonder what it is?
Update: I was wrong there are more of them. They move in a spiral motion up towards the surface. Get nailed by the current and then spiral back up to the surface again. And I thought I was getting them with my net but now I see that when I take then net out very slow they are slipping through the net back into the water. Ugh! I don't know how to get them out. If I had fish they would surely eat them. Anybody know what they are?

 

[Easy]

So right now my filter is clearing the ammonia dose in about 24 hrs maybe less . Nitrites were off the chart last night. I will test again tonight. My API master test comes in tomorrow . I cant wait for a more accurate test. I figure I can't be far off so that got me to thinking about stocking. I was thinking 2 small Cory's , 3 male guppies and 5 female guppies, 1 ghost shrimp and maybe 3 tetras. Is that too many fish for a 20g? I figure it's about 14 inch of fish. Maybe the Tetras are pushing it?

Also I read elsewhere that once the test kit is showing 0 ammonia,0 nitrites in a 12hr span then you give it a couple more days for good measure. Then you can put your entire stock in at once. Is this OK to do? Or do you need to add just a couple at a time? Been reading conflicting opinions on this.

 

[Essjay]

Also I read elsewhere that once the test kit is showing 0 ammonia,0 nitrites in a 12hr span then you give it a couple more days for good measure. Then you can put your entire stock in at once. Is this OK to do? Or do you need to add just a couple at a time? Been reading conflicting opinions on this.

Once they are both dropping to zero within 12 hours, I'd wait a week to be on the safe side. Don't forget you'll need to add more ammonia once a day during that week. So long as they both stay at zero during the week, you can get fish at the end of it. The nitrate reading will be very high by this point so you'll need to do an enormous water change to get rid of it just before you get your fish.
And yes you can get the entire stock at once, though it's possible a shop might refuse to sell that many in one go. Most of them don't understand fishless cycling. Though if you plan to get any very delicate types of fish you might be better leaving those a few months till after the tank matures.
And of course provided the amount/type of fish you intend to get are suitable for the tank you have. Overstocking a brand new tank, even one that has a cycled filter, is not a good idea.

 

[Easy]

Also I read elsewhere that once the test kit is showing 0 ammonia,0 nitrites in a 12hr span then you give it a couple more days for good measure. Then you can put your entire stock in at once. Is this OK to do? Or do you need to add just a couple at a time? Been reading conflicting opinions on this.

Once they are both dropping to zero within 12 hours, I'd wait a week to be on the safe side. Don't forget you'll need to add more ammonia once a day during that week. So long as they both stay at zero during the week, you can get fish at the end of it. The nitrate reading will be very high by this point so you'll need to do an enormous water change to get rid of it just before you get your fish.
And yes you can get the entire stock at once, though it's possible a shop might refuse to sell that many in one go. Most of them don't understand fishless cycling. Though if you plan to get any very delicate types of fish you might be better leaving those a few months till after the tank matures.
And of course provided the amount/type of fish you intend to get are suitable for the tank you have. Overstocking a brand new tank, even one that has a cycled filter, is not a good idea.

Would you say that I would be ok with 6-8 guppies 2 Cory's 3 small tetras and a ghost shrimp? Also do you think my tank has enough cover for these fish? I know the Cory's prefer larger groups and a sand substrate, but I really like them and guppies and want to keep them together. My wife likes the guppies and from what I have read the list of recommended compatible tankmates is pretty slim.

 

[Essjay]

Also I read elsewhere that once the test kit is showing 0 ammonia,0 nitrites in a 12hr span then you give it a couple more days for good measure. Then you can put your entire stock in at once. Is this OK to do? Or do you need to add just a couple at a time? Been reading conflicting opinions on this.

Once they are both dropping to zero within 12 hours, I'd wait a week to be on the safe side. Don't forget you'll need to add more ammonia once a day during that week. So long as they both stay at zero during the week, you can get fish at the end of it. The nitrate reading will be very high by this point so you'll need to do an enormous water change to get rid of it just before you get your fish.
And yes you can get the entire stock at once, though it's possible a shop might refuse to sell that many in one go. Most of them don't understand fishless cycling. Though if you plan to get any very delicate types of fish you might be better leaving those a few months till after the tank matures.
And of course provided the amount/type of fish you intend to get are suitable for the tank you have. Overstocking a brand new tank, even one that has a cycled filter, is not a good idea.

Would you say that I would be ok with 6-8 guppies 2 Cory's 3 small tetras and a ghost shrimp? Also do you think my tank has enough cover for these fish? I know the Cory's prefer larger groups and a sand substrate, but I really like them and guppies and want to keep them together. My wife likes the guppies and from what I have read the list of recommended compatible tankmates is pretty slim.

Is this the 20 gall tank?

6 to 8 male guppies would be OK. Don't get females as the tank would get overstocked very quickly.

Cories really should be in a group of 6 or more, as should whichever tetra you want. What is your gravel like, it is all nice and smooth or are the bits rough and sharp? It's hard to tell from the pic of your tank. If it's the smooth kind, you could get away with cories. Do any of your shops have one of the dwarf cory species - that's pygmy cories, hastatus cories and habrosus cories (sometimes called salt and pepper cories, these are not the same as peppered cories). All of these three stay small enough for 6 in a 20 gall.
If your gravel is rough, I would forget the cories, and get more shrimps.

What tetras would want to get? So long as you stick to one of the smaller types, you should be OK with 6 especially if you don't have cories. Or one of the small rasbora species?


But - do you know if you have soft or hard water? Guppies prefer hard water and most tetras like it soft so there's a conflict there with the fish you want.

 

[Easy]

Also I read elsewhere that once the test kit is showing 0 ammonia,0 nitrites in a 12hr span then you give it a couple more days for good measure. Then you can put your entire stock in at once. Is this OK to do? Or do you need to add just a couple at a time? Been reading conflicting opinions on this.

Once they are both dropping to zero within 12 hours, I'd wait a week to be on the safe side. Don't forget you'll need to add more ammonia once a day during that week. So long as they both stay at zero during the week, you can get fish at the end of it. The nitrate reading will be very high by this point so you'll need to do an enormous water change to get rid of it just before you get your fish.
And yes you can get the entire stock at once, though it's possible a shop might refuse to sell that many in one go. Most of them don't understand fishless cycling. Though if you plan to get any very delicate types of fish you might be better leaving those a few months till after the tank matures.
And of course provided the amount/type of fish you intend to get are suitable for the tank you have. Overstocking a brand new tank, even one that has a cycled filter, is not a good idea.

Would you say that I would be ok with 6-8 guppies 2 Cory's 3 small tetras and a ghost shrimp? Also do you think my tank has enough cover for these fish? I know the Cory's prefer larger groups and a sand substrate, but I really like them and guppies and want to keep them together. My wife likes the guppies and from what I have read the list of recommended compatible tankmates is pretty slim.

Is this the 20 gall tank?

6 to 8 male guppies would be OK. Don't get females as the tank would get overstocked very quickly.

Cories really should be in a group of 6 or more, as should whichever tetra you want. What is your gravel like, it is all nice and smooth or are the bits rough and sharp? It's hard to tell from the pic of your tank. If it's the smooth kind, you could get away with cories. Do any of your shops have one of the dwarf cory species - that's pygmy cories, hastatus cories and habrosus cories (sometimes called salt and pepper cories, these are not the same as peppered cories). All of these three stay small enough for 6 in a 20 gall.
If your gravel is rough, I would forget the cories, and get more shrimps.

What tetras would want to get? So long as you stick to one of the smaller types, you should be OK with 6 especially if you don't have cories. Or one of the small rasbora species?


But - do you know if you have soft or hard water? Guppies prefer hard water and most tetras like it soft so there's a conflict there with the fish you want.

It's a 20g,with regular cheap aquarium gravel. The ph is about 7.6-7.8
Well geez.......It sounds like after all this time and money I can't get anything.... Every fish needs this or that/or isn't compatible etc...seems pretty silly if you ask me. These fish are sitting in an overcrowded plain tank with not substrate,plants, or cover of any kind at the stores where I live. And everybody seems to always be worried about the fish happiness. As am I, but at least what I can provide is better than we're they came from,right?

 

[Essjay]

The fish in the stores are only there for a few days or weeks until they are sold. In your tank, they will be hopefully be there for years. That's why the shops can get away with overstocking. The fish in the stores are usually babies, or maybe juveniles, which are sold well before they grow up. And also stores usually have a filter system which runs a whole bank of tanks, and is much bigger than the filtration we run in our single tanks, so the stores can overstock without harming the fish.

The reason it is not a good idea to keep cories or loaches on sharp rough gravel is because they feed by rummaging round on the bottom for scraps of food. Rough gravel can cut their barbels and mouths and this allows infections to get in.

If your water has middling hardness, you could probably get away with both guppies and tetras. It's mainly extremely soft water that's not good for guppies or extremely hard water that isn't good for most tetras. So long as yours is somewhere in between the extremes you should be OK.

Edit, just noticed your pH. Guppies will be happy with that. Lots of people with that pH also have tetras, it's just that they won't breed in that pH.

 

[Easy]

The fish in the stores are only there for a few days or weeks until they are sold. In your tank, they will be hopefully be there for years. That's why the shops can get away with overstocking. The fish in the stores are usually babies, or maybe juveniles, which are sold well before they grow up. And also stores usually have a filter system which runs a whole bank of tanks, and is much bigger than the filtration we run in our single tanks, so the stores can overstock without harming the fish.

The reason it is not a good idea to keep cories or loaches on sharp rough gravel is because they feed by rummaging round on the bottom for scraps of food. Rough gravel can cut their barbels and mouths and this allows infections to get in.

If your water has middling hardness, you could probably get away with both guppies and tetras. It's mainly extremely soft water that's not good for guppies or extremely hard water that isn't good for most tetras. So long as yours is somewhere in between the extremes you should be OK.

Edit, just noticed your pH. Guppies will be happy with that. Lots of people with that pH also have tetras, it's just that they won't breed in that pH.

I really wants Cory, so let me ask you this. Is there any feasible way for me to change or add some different substrate to what I already have without breaking down the tank that would make it more suitable for them. Or are there any Cory's in particular that may be less affected by the gravel substrate than others. I am thinking either 2 Julii or 1 Julii and 1 albino. Ive read that they only get 2-2.5" in length. Before I returned my albino Cory to the store he looked very happy in the tank.

 

[Essjay]

Yes. As you have no fish at the moment it'll be easier for you than when I changed my gravel for sand with fish in the tank. In 3 tanks!

First of all get some fine smooth rounded gravel, or even better sand, and give it a good wash to get rid of the dust. Then put the tank decor in a bucket, and carefully take out the plants, keeping them in a bucket of water. If the filter is tucked out of the way you could leave it in, but I put my internals in a bucket of water too. Empty some water out - you'll need to do that anyway to put the plants and filter into. I then scooped the gravel out with a big net - though it did damage the net so I couldn't use it again - and cleaned the fish waste off the tank bottom with a siphon tube (the fish were in the bucket with the filter). The just put your new gravel or sand in the tank, replant the plants, put the decor back in and top up with water if necessary. The water might be a bit cloudy afterwards, especially if you don't clean the new gravel/sand properly, but the filter should soon clear it. You don't have any fish to worry about in murky water.


The old gravel will have some bacteria growing on it but the vast majority are in the filter. So long as you keep the filter wet you shouldn't have a problem. My tanks had been running for a few years when I changed the gravel, I kept an eye on my ammonia and nitrite for a few days afterwards and never saw a trace of either. Your filter is still cycling so you don't have to worry about any risk to fish.

 

[dbanner]

The fish in the stores are only there for a few days or weeks until they are sold. In your tank, they will be hopefully be there for years. That's why the shops can get away with overstocking. The fish in the stores are usually babies, or maybe juveniles, which are sold well before they grow up. And also stores usually have a filter system which runs a whole bank of tanks, and is much bigger than the filtration we run in our single tanks, so the stores can overstock without harming the fish.

The reason it is not a good idea to keep cories or loaches on sharp rough gravel is because they feed by rummaging round on the bottom for scraps of food. Rough gravel can cut their barbels and mouths and this allows infections to get in.

If your water has middling hardness, you could probably get away with both guppies and tetras. It's mainly extremely soft water that's not good for guppies or extremely hard water that isn't good for most tetras. So long as yours is somewhere in between the extremes you should be OK.

Edit, just noticed your pH. Guppies will be happy with that. Lots of people with that pH also have tetras, it's just that they won't breed in that pH.

I really wants Cory, so let me ask you this. Is there any feasible way for me to change or add some different substrate to what I already have without breaking down the tank that would make it more suitable for them. Or are there any Cory's in particular that may be less affected by the gravel substrate than others. I am thinking either 2 Julii or 1 Julii and 1 albino. Ive read that they only get 2-2.5" in length. Before I returned my albino Cory to the store he looked very happy in the tank.

If you were to change your gravel for sand then corys would be fine but don't just get one or two. They need to be in groups of at least 6. The more the merrier but a minimum of 6. Also they wouldn't mean 3 of one type and then 3 of another type. I mean a group of say 6+ albinos or 6+ pandas.. 6+ sterbai and so on. They feel safer in big groups of the same species and will shoal together. Although I will say that corys like this start off small but can get very chunky so because your tank is so small I'd go with around 10 Pygmy corys (dwarf type)