MINIMUM SIZE FOR PERMANENT BETTA

[paige]

i think they should be kept in a 5 gallon tank
i think its cruel to keep them in any smaller tanks because there just normal fish wat i meen is u wouldnt put a guppy or a swordie in a glass or 1 gallon tank would ya well only for emergencies

 

[paige]

i meen who is gonna be sooo cruel to put a betta in 1 of these

 

[BettaMomma]

I personally think the whole "rice paddies" argument is complete B.S. The fish that most of us get are born and raised to the point that we can buy them in a fish room somewhere. Some people import them from Thailand and other countries where I suppose it's slightly possible for the fish to come from them - and probably do... but I bet if you took a poll here, a huge majority of people have gotten theirs either directly from a breeder or off the shelf somewhere.

This whole issue could be debated for years, and there will never be any solid right or wrong answer. I agree with you in the sense of fish needing a certain amount of space. If you look at a species of fish like danios - if you have ever sat and watched them for any amount of time - they're psychotic little swimmers who don't sit still unless they're.... well..... pretty much unless they're dead. They swim back and forth, up and down, etc. That's their nature. And they're usually swimming in groups - they need room.

I'm not saying that bettas should be kept in teeny tiny containers - because the cups they're kept in make me CRAZY. I HATE them. But - I very strongly believe (and NO one will ever make me feel any different) that a 1 gallon tank is a suitable tank. It's not my first choice, and that's obvious given the fact that I now have everyone of my fish now in a 2.5G or bigger - and I have 16 little slimy friends. But, given the fact that I like to give lots of unfortunate little souls a place to live that's comfortable for them and that they will live a fantastic life with me, assuming they live through whatever nasty illness or problem prompted me to drag them home with me, I think that having a 1G tank for them is just fine. And just for kicks, I challenge anyone to tell me that I'm doing a disservice to a fish by bringing him/her home and nursing them back to health in clean, sparkly warm water where they get a soft plant to lay on, loads of attention, any medication they might need, and a variety of food that would challenge any family reunion potluck spread. EVEN if it is in a 1 gallon tank.

And that stupid gumball machine tank ALSO makes me crazy.
I tried writing emails to all of the ebay sellers trying to pawn stuff like that off on unsuspecting people, but that job got completely overwhelming - it could be more than a full time job for someone!

 

[eudielynn]

I personally think the whole "rice paddies" argument is complete B.S. The fish that most of us get are born and raised to the point that we can buy them in a fish room somewhere. Some people import them from Thailand and other countries where I suppose it's slightly possible for the fish to come from them - and probably do... but I bet if you took a poll here, a huge majority of people have gotten theirs either directly from a breeder or off the shelf somewhere.

This whole issue could be debated for years, and there will never be any solid right or wrong answer. I agree with you in the sense of fish needing a certain amount of space. If you look at a species of fish like danios - if you have ever sat and watched them for any amount of time - they're psychotic little swimmers who don't sit still unless they're.... well..... pretty much unless they're dead. They swim back and forth, up and down, etc. That's their nature. And they're usually swimming in groups - they need room.

I'm not saying that bettas should be kept in teeny tiny containers - because the cups they're kept in make me CRAZY. I HATE them. But - I very strongly believe (and NO one will ever make me feel any different) that a 1 gallon tank is a suitable tank. It's not my first choice, and that's obvious given the fact that I now have everyone of my fish now in a 2.5G or bigger - and I have 16 little slimy friends. But, given the fact that I like to give lots of unfortunate little souls a place to live that's comfortable for them and that they will live a fantastic life with me, assuming they live through whatever nasty illness or problem prompted me to drag them home with me, I think that having a 1G tank for them is just fine. And just for kicks, I challenge anyone to tell me that I'm doing a disservice to a fish by bringing him/her home and nursing them back to health in clean, sparkly warm water where they get a soft plant to lay on, loads of attention, any medication they might need, and a variety of food that would challenge any family reunion potluck spread. EVEN if it is in a 1 gallon tank.

And that stupid gumball machine tank ALSO makes me crazy.
I tried writing emails to all of the ebay sellers trying to pawn stuff like that off on unsuspecting people, but that job got completely overwhelming - it could be more than a full time job for someone!

What she said.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Well i personally think that a 1gal tank is too small for a betta and trying to justify it by saying the betta is healthy is like me trying to justify my friends 20gallon tank with 4 8inch goldfish is fine.
Anything bigger than those tiny cups is an improvement and im sure the betta greatly apprieciates going from a 2inch cup to a 1gal tank, but i feel like it would only be like saving a 10inch plec from a 10gallon tank and putting it into a 20gallon tank- sure the plec would massively apreiciate the upgrade and its health would improve alot, but it still doesn't change the fact that the 20gallon tank is still not adequete.
That is all im am trying to say.

 

[paige]

this tank is just as bad.it looks quite big but they only get 1/2 gallon between them i meen u can get bettas with really big tales i'm suprised they would fit in there

 

[BettaMomma]

Well i personally think that a 1gal tank is too small for a betta and trying to justify it by saying the betta is healthy is like me trying to justify my friends 20gallon tank with 4 8inch goldfish is fine.
Anything bigger than those tiny cups is an improvement and im sure the betta greatly apprieciates going from a 2inch cup to a 1gal tank, but i feel like it would only be like saving a 10inch plec from a 10gallon tank and putting it into a 20gallon tank- sure the plec would massively apreiciate the upgrade and its health would improve alot, but it still doesn't change the fact that the 20gallon tank is still not adequete.
That is all im am trying to say.

Part of the reason why those arguments are kind of irrelevant to the discussion of bettas is because in tanks of that size, part of the reason those tanks are deemed as *inadequate* (particularly in the case of goldfish) is because of the amount of waste the fish create being unhealthy in that amount of water, not just the amount of living space they want/need. Therefore, creating the need for constant continuous water changing.

Bettas just don't create as much waste as some other fish, and in smaller tanks get complete water changes, removing the need to have that huge volume of water around to compensate for the amount of waste.

Don't get me wrong - I love the fact that all my fish are in 2.5G tanks but I will NEVER put anyone down for having one in a 1G tank. It's a matter of personal preference, and I have seen fish who have all out flourished in 1G tanks with my own eyes. My very own Lucky grew his tail back in a 1G tank.

To each his own, I guess - I have lots of betta friends already, and plan to get several more over the course of my life.. even if that means I have to put all my new ones into 1G tanks. And I'll do it - and I'll feel good about it because I know they are happy living with me cuz they're clean, warm, full, happy and loved.

and paige - yes, those things are HORRID. I have one of them as a little hospital tank in case i have a really sick fish. I fill it up and put a little sprig of live plant in there - and it works okay for that, but I can't even begin to imagine having a fish in there for any length of time. They can hardly turn around in those. Let alone dividing them in half?!?!

 

[OohFeeshy]

Just a thought. Take a guppy. Not an inbred one, a fairly plain, hardy sort. How knocked would you get for putting a guppy in a 1 gallon? Or a platy? Guppies have large tails and are smaller than bettas. If I put in my sig that I had a guppy in a 1 gallon, I'd have about 20 people on my back telling me the tank was too small. But a betta? No one bats an eyelid. Even my dad, who thinks a bowl is fine for a goldfish, fish grow to the size of the tank and my almost overstocked 15g is empty said a 1 gallon is too small. If I can get a plain 3 gallon tank for £5, and a heater for £10, I'm sure those of you that live in places where things are cheaper (not difficult) can easily manage.

 

[BettaMomma]

My problem is space - not money. I want to have bettas, and I will - I just don't have room for huge tanks.

I hear what you're saying on the topic of keeping other fish in larger containers and people throwing a fit. Walk into any fish store, and you know what you're going to see - bettas in teeny tiny cups, everyone else in the nice big tanks. Why is this fair? It's not. But the other thing about bettas is that they don't need to have any source of oxygen in their water so they don't *need* to be in a tank that provides that. Hence the microscopic little death traps they're stuck in.

And the one glaringly obvious thing that everyone's missed here til now (including myself), on the whole issue is simply that bettas can't go in with other fish (excluding communities, yadda yadda) but ya can't have a 20 gallon tank in a fish store (or at your house, for that matter) full of betta boys. It just doesn't work.

I see everyone's point here, and I don't completely disagree with any of you. I think bettas are crapped on their entire lives by us humans (present company excluded, of course) in the way they're toted around (well, all ornamental fish are for that matter), the way they're kept, displayed, neglected, etc. etc. and I HATE it.

One point I have failed to mention cuz I don't want to throw an emotional wrench in this whole thing is a personal experience I have with this whole topic, but I think i'm going to toss it out there anyway, just as a "Not every fish does well in a big tank - it does depend on the fish too" argument.... My very first betta boy, Amos. I ADORED that fish. He RACED over to me every single morning when I got to the office. He gave me a lopsided little flare. He swam laps and stopped every once in a while to watch me type and wait for me to look at him... He built me BEAUTIFUL bubblenests. He was a gorgeous plum color. He was a dream fish who was loaded with much more personality than some people I know. I decided it was time to get him a 5 gallon tank with a filter. Got him moved over and he was absolutely beside himself because there was so much space to patrol and the filter was bothering him that he ended up getting ick. He chewed his tail off, and he got sick. I moved him back to his smaller tank but the damage had been done. A few agonizing days later, he died. It was to date one of the most agonizing things I had to go through, and I'm sure it wasn't a whole lot of fun for him either.

So, it does also does depend on the fish - he was perfectly happy and felt safe in his little 2 gallon tank but I *thought* a 5 gallon would be better. It's not always as it seems, I guess.

 

[OohFeeshy]

I don't have room either. But I still manage to provide what I think is big enough. Unfourtunately, anything bigger than about 3 gallons is glass, ugly or ridiculously priced (I mean, £15 for a 6 gallon is rather steep). Roomwise, as I've said before, my room is the smallest in the house yet I can fit in 2 hamsters, two 3 gallons, a 15, and various electrical stuff and other furniature and still have enough room to provide 3 gallons for over 6 other bettas. I get £20 a month, and that is mainly used for dechlor, fish food and other fish stuff and I can still manage a tank bigger than 1 gallon. I have a 1 gallon tank, all I'm going to use it for is plants. Or I can put a betta in it temporarily (pets at home got their delivery today, two are in tanks next to each other and all have been nipped already) if the need be, but I'd upgrade as soon as possible. Just because bettas can't go in with all fish (most are fine as long as your sensible, two of mine started in a community before I put them in 3's), doesn't mean you should put them in a tiny tank. Many different fish have to be kept alone, eg. puffers, but no one restricts them to small tanks because of it. In fact, puffers can't be kept with anything, whereas bettas can.

 

[SRC]

Just a thought. Take a guppy. Not an inbred one, a fairly plain, hardy sort. How knocked would you get for putting a guppy in a 1 gallon? Or a platy? Guppies have large tails and are smaller than bettas. If I put in my sig that I had a guppy in a 1 gallon, I'd have about 20 people on my back telling me the tank was too small. But a betta? No one bats an eyelid.

I think you'd get knocked more for having a single guppy in any size tank period. Guppies are not solitary creatures by habit, betta's are, Guppies are a shoaling fish and like to be in groups, which of course means they need a bigger tank.

The basic rule is 2"** of fish per 1 gallon of water...well most betta's are 2" (**that measurement isn't meant to include the tail..only the body).

A 1 gallon tank is not a "small" tank for 1 fish, especially a fish that likes to be alone and not bothered often.

It's not that a betta doesn't put out as much waste into the water (because Lord knows I have some of the poopinst betta boys ever spawned lol), it's just that they aren't going to grow any larger then 2" (of course unless you have the new "giant" bettas that have been going around) so they don't throw off the same chemicals/hormones into the water as other fish...which is the problem with putting most fish in a 1 gallon bowl..it causes them to stunt, because most fish grow larger then 2"...not to mention 8 out of 10 fish you see are suposed to be in groups (except the mean ones..but those get huge).

Stunting is when a fish that will grow to a large size is kept in too small a tank, or kept in a tank that has been over-stocked, and it causes the fish to stop growing (commonly heard, but not fully comprehended, when talking about goldfish, that they "grow to fit their tank" that you hear at retailers) on the outside, yet they continue to grow on the inside, thus making their lives short lived.

This arguement is the same as the "Do or don't save Betta's from Walmart" argument..it's stupid, senseless, and pointless. As long as you are doing water changes, keeping the parameter levels correct, and the fish is perky and healthy....it shouldn't matter if they are in a 1 gallon tank or not. Less then a gallon for permanent residence might not be suitable..but a 1 gallon is clearly a viable option. You have to realize we are talking about Betta's not Oscars.

It's all a matter of personal choice. I don't see why people keep starting threads like this, that they know will cause conflict and arguments...it's ridiculous.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

This arguement is the same as the "Do or don't save Betta's from Walmart" argument..it's stupid, senseless, and pointless.

It's all a matter of personal choice. I don't see why people keep starting threads like this, that they know will cause conflict and arguments...it's ridiculous. [/quote]
Wether you think its stupid or not, other people seem to have taken alot of interest in it and it is a very important subject that questions what is the minimum size tank for a betta, and knowing that is very important indeed.
You complain about conflict in this thread but not everyone has to share the same opinion on things all the time and looks like people don't and i don't see any unesarsary trolling apart from you, i think people have been pretty civilised in this debate so far and if you don't like it don't post in it.

 

[OohFeeshy]

This is menat to be a debate. The person who wrote this didn't intend to change anyones mind, it is intended to see different peoples opinions. Pointless it may be to somepeople, but IMO so are most of the 'I got a betta today' threads.

Anyway, maybe a guppy wasn't the best example. But it illustrates a point. As for the 'rule' which isn't a rule anyway, it only applies to fish of average waste output and activity level. Plus really, its only for small fish like tetras. And as the bettas tail is so long, I think it should at least be partly counted. Male dwarf gouramis don't get along, but as said before, you wouldn't keep one of those in a 1 gallon tank. They are about the same size as a betta, and are labyrinth.

 

[BettaMomma]

As long as you are doing water changes, keeping the parameter levels correct, and the fish is perky and healthy....it shouldn't matter if they are in a 1 gallon tank or not. Less then a gallon for permanent residence might not be suitable..but a 1 gallon is clearly a viable option. You have to realize we are talking about Betta's not Oscars.

I agree 100%.

 

[eudielynn]

I stopped posting on this thread because I felt that I was being told that the general opinion was that I shouldn't have bettas if I couldn't afford to keep them in individual large tanks. And it really upsets me that some of you think that if you can't afford it, just go out and get another job. Not that it's anyone's business, but I am the sole support of a family, my hubby being disabled for many years. The little time that I have away from work and caring for him I spend on my animals. I cannot take on any extra work at least not until they put more hours in the days. Does this mean I should not be allowed the one pleasure I have in my life because I can't put them in 2+ gal tanks? I also didn't see the word debate when I posted here to begin with. I saw the word poll. That was what I answered. Since I am a little tired of being put down for shopping where I can afford to shop and buying what I can afford to buy I think it is time for me to leave this forum.