Its Been A While...

[Bre_B]

I was in teh emergency section a while back, and found that my female betta, Sally, had hemorrhagic septicemia, and had it for about a month beforehand. After finding out what was wrong, I got E.M. Tablets at my LFS and followed the directions of use. I followed them and i got no result. A few days and a 100% water change in the hospital tank later, I decide I should start it again, but still, no results. At all. She looks the same, and is progressively getting worse just as she was before. There was not even a slow-down in how bad she is.

My friend, who saw her the day i bought her came by, and thought she was a blood-red patched fish, with blood-red fins.. She didnt even recognize her, and this friend generally recognizes my fish, even knows the names i haev for them. That doesnt seem to be a good sign to me.


so my questions..


Is it just too bad now, to save her? Should I euthanize her, or keep her and just hope she gets better?

what do you all think?

 

[CatLover]

Wow, she's been like this for over a month? That sounds pretty bad. I would try a few more methods of treatment first, if there are any more to try. If she still looks like she is suffering a lot, I would put her down.

This is a tiny bit off topic, but I had a dream last night that I had two male bettas fight to the death. They had gotten past the divider some how, and their caudil fins were completely gone; they were even tearing off chunks of each other's body and lips. It was scary, and I had to euthenize both of them. They didn't even resemble bettas after they were done with each other. I'm SO glad it was just a dream Even in the dream, it was a very difficult decision for me to make, even though it was completely obvious there was no way either fish was going to live. I hope you have the strength to make the right decision, whatever it may be.

 

[Bre_B]

i would have tried another method, but that's all my LFS carries, and I dont currently have any sort of ATM card, credit card, etc, to order things online for another month or so hence my concern. She's had it for, total, over 2 months now. She HATES the hospital tank, too. I feel so bad for her, part of me just wishes that I'd wake up and she'd be gone, so that the decision would be made for me, but then the other half of me says no, thats no good, she'd suffer before dying that way. blegh.

i also have no idea how to euthanize a fish, and i dont know if i can do it myself

 

[Durbkat]

You can flush them. Thats what I would do if it happened to me. Nut I wouldn't do it until I have tried all methods of treatment.

 

[black angel]

I havent seen the other thread, but what is she in and how many gallons, any other fish and what are the readings for ammonia and nitrite. Is the tank/bowl filtered and cycled. How much and how often do you clean her out.
With the blood showing on her fins does her body look like bruising? That would suggest septiceamia and can be righted with plenty of water changes but sometimes bacterial diseases can take hold and slowly lower the immune system. Is her home heated and not left to fluctuate?

Going to go and see the other post and hope that i just havent repeated questions already asked.

 

[RandomWiktor]

You can flush them. Thats what I would do if it happened to me. Nut I wouldn't do it until I have tried all methods of treatment.

No, no you can't. Flushing is one of the cruelest possible methods of "euthanasia", and I can't believe you'd even suggest it. It doesn't kill the fish at all quickly; you might as well just let them continue to languish and suffer in their sick state, at least then it wouldn't be terrifying and painful. Please do not give advice unless you know what you are talking about.

The following is the PROPER way to euthanize a fish. I put it up on the goldfish board, so ignore the references to goldfish. I've used this method with bettas and it works very well:

I don't know what size tank your fellow is on, or if other fish are in with him, so I'll just suggest this:
- Gently scoop your fish up into a fairly small container filled half way with water from the tank.
- Get a bottle of clove oil - the kind for analgesia/dental numbing, not the scented oil. I've heard varying bits of info on the dosage, but the bottle is usually small, so I've always used the whole thing to make sure the animal is truly dead.
- Scoop up enough tank water in a separate container to fill the rest of the one your goldfish is in. Place the clove oil into this container and shake very thoroughly so that the oil is thoroughly dispersed throughout the water.
- Pour the water with added clove oil into the container your fish is in. You should see an almost-immediate cessationo of movement, and not long after, the gills should stop.
- Leave the fish in this container until you are sure it is dead. Most people will freeze the fish once it is unconcious, but I've found that if you leave them in, you'll be able to tell in a few hours that they are definately dead; the eyes will go pale and glazed, the color will leave, and the slime coat will shed. If you've seen a dead fish, you'll know what to look for.
- If you'd like to be doubly sure, freeze or destroy the brain after the fish has been in the clove oil for several hours. It shouldn't be necesarry, but some people like to do it on the off chance that the animal was only very convincingly anesthatized. But as I said above, if you just look for the signs of death, it shouldn't be needed.

Clove oil has natural anesthetic and analgesic effects on fish; they use chemicals from it when performing fish surgeries. It is not a painful death, and if you use enough and shake thoroughly before pouring it in, you won't need to use the vodka method, which sounds painful to me. It is probably the kindest way to say goodbye to your little fishie.

There is another thread on it here, but this is one of the most humane, and least traumatic to you and the fish.

While septicemia is often caused by unclean water, there is a viral hemmoragic form that is nearly impossible to treat, and a bacteria form that requires antibiotics when it is serious enough. I've found some aquarium salt and a week of antibiotics paired with very clean water normally rids of fish of bacterial septicemia. I would infer that perhaps your female has the viral form, which is almost impossible to treat. You wouldn't happen to have pictures so we could see what it looks like, would you?
Other than that? Answer blackangel's questions, and perhaps we can offer more advice based on that.

 

[WILDER]

Can you get hold of some tetracycline, not the writer of this information below.



Symptoms:

Fish may have reddening at fin bases, blood streaks throughout the fins and body, small hemorrhages around the eyes. Dull listless behavior and lack of appetite may also be present.



Cause:

Systemic bacterial infection caused by various bacteria, including Aeromonas, Pseudomonas and Vibrio. The illness is often brought on by poor water quality or as a result of parasitic infestations or other infections. These bacteria enter the blood stream and circulate through the tissues causing inflammation and damage. Inflamed blood vessels in the skin and at fin bases stand out. Blood vessel and heart tissue damage cause hemorrhaging and consequently leakage of body fluids into the abdomen, which may lead to Dropsy.



Treatment:

Water conditions must be improved for all fish in the tank, regardless of how many fish are infected. Check your water’s Treat with Kanacyn or Tetracycline as well as with a medicated food if the fish will eat. If parasites are suspected, all the fish in the tank should be treated with antiparasitic medication. Using salt to help restore osmotic balance might be helpful.

 

[Durbkat]

You can flush them. Thats what I would do if it happened to me. Nut I wouldn't do it until I have tried all methods of treatment.

No, no you can't. Flushing is one of the cruelest possible methods of "euthanasia", and I can't believe you'd even suggest it. It doesn't kill the fish at all quickly; you might as well just let them continue to languish and suffer in their sick state, at least then it wouldn't be terrifying and painful. Please do not give advice unless you know what you are talking about.

Well I didn't know that so if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.

 

[RandomWiktor]

Not my fault you posted false info without doing your research, and if I didn't say anything at all, this person may have subjected the fish to a horrible death. So don't be acting like I'm the bad guy here.

 

[WILDER]

I must say durbkat flushing is not an acceptable way, and a horrible death for the fish, even the thought of it turns my stomach, a fish dosn't deserve that, but you didn't no, but you do now.

 

[Durbkat]

Yeah I know now wilder.

RandomWiktor I thought it was correct info so chill out

 

[RandomWiktor]

You're perpetuating an argument at this point; you could have just gracefully stepped down and apologized for posting wrong information instead of taking offense to the fact that I pointed you you were wrong. For future reference, never post something regarding a living thing unless you're sure it is correct.
I'm done with this silly little argument, however. You've now been informed; I'm sure any fish you later have to euthanize will be thankful. I will now only post in this topic pertaining to the problem the origional poster has, and I hope you will do the same so the thread doesn't get locked over a dispute.

 

[Bre_B]

I have her seperated in a ten gallon "hospital" tank right now (in case you meant previously, ill put what she WAS held in below this) with no other fish, ammonia 0 and nitrite apprx .5? i looks like inbetween 0 and ... oh that dosnt matter lol its about .5 , the tank is filtered and has been cycled. Before treatment when i was unsure as to what she had and she was being quarantined i did 25% water changes every day, and i had been treating her thinking it was a bacterial infection, but when it didnt get better thats when i came on here and found out what it really was. Now i follow what the instructions say about when to do water changes, etc, but yeah, thats not helping. Her home is heated.


(editing this in, i forgot to put it.) what she was kept in before was my 55 gallon sorority tank. She was kept with all female bettas, none of which i might add have that or have shown any signs of it. The testings since i put them in there are always within the "safe zone", generally did apprx 25-30% water changes every 3 days-4 days, obviously a heated and filtered tank lol.




and dont worry, i woudlnt have flushed it even if i thought it was humane... id feel so... disrespectful, putting my poor sally in the TOILET...


i think i got all the questions.. lmk if i missed something.

oh, and ill get a pic and post it tonight

 

[WILDER]

If you have some tetracycline you could try this as a last resort, bless him

 

[RandomWiktor]

Have you tried salt? Don't ask me why, because frankly I don't get it either, but I found that salt and Maracyn-2 is the most sucessful treatment. It sounds like you can't get Maracyn-2 though. What stores do you have around? Petco/Petsmart/Pet Supplies Plus all typically carry it. It sounds like you don't have one, but maybe you could ask your LFS to order some in? Though, as I mentioned above, it could be the viral form, in which case I'm afriad treatment seldom, if ever, works.
Poor little girl. I hope you can figure something out. Does she appear to be suffering? If not, maybe just feed her well and keep her comfortable until she needs to be euthanized.