Is history repeating itself?

[Rocky998]

Do you plan to set up the quarantine tank this time? You don't have to cycle it like a brand new tank. Just add a second filter to your main tank, then once that's colonised with bacteria, move it to the quarantine tank and add fresh water when you're ready to get the new fish.

That's cool but I cant add a sponge filter to the main tank becaude it produces a strong flow and I cant do that to the gudgeons... They hate it when there is a strong flow.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

That's cool but I cant add a sponge filter to the main tank becaude it produces a strong flow and I cant do that to the gudgeons... They hate it when there is a strong flow.

I didn't say it had to be a sponge filter, or even that you should use that method to set up a quarantine tank - just offering a suggestion that some people aren't aware of, but can be useful if they don't want a permanent QT tank set up. Or if you thought you'd have to go through the whole process of cycling a QT from scratch. There are other options to help speed up the process, when you already have a cycled tank.

I'm not trying to have a go at you, or dictate how you should do things! I'm trying to help you formulate a plan for when you add more fish, so you have a more successful outcome next time. But it's entirely your choice.

 

[Rocky998]

I didn't say it had to be a sponge filter, or even that you should use that method to set up a quarantine tank - just offering a suggestion that some people aren't aware of, but can be useful if they don't want a permanent QT tank set up. Or if you thought you'd have to go through the whole process of cycling a QT from scratch. There are other options to help speed up the process, when you already have a cycled tank.

I'm not trying to have a go at you, or dictate how you should do things! I'm trying to help you formulate a plan for when you add more fish, so you have a more successful outcome next time. But it's entirely your choice.

Yes I knew you were just helping. Sorry if I came across rude or something. I think I'm just gonna cycle this like a normal tank...

 

[Byron]

Yes I knew you were just helping. Sorry if I came across rude or something. I think I'm just gonna cycle this like a normal tank...

If this tank can be set up now, in readiness, then the easy method is to put a bit of sand on the bottom, and throw in some floating plants. Get the filter running, and the heater. A chunk of wood, or rock, or something to break up the space is advisable as this calms the new fish.

 

[Rocky998]

If this tank can be set up now, in readiness, then the easy method is to put a bit of sand on the bottom, and throw in some floating plants. Get the filter running, and the heater. A chunk of wood, or rock, or something to break up the space is advisable as this calms the new fish.

Thats the plan... All exept for floating plants... They die due to the high flow at the top

 

[GaryE]

There is a thing I call "the dance of death' that I learned when I was breeding Apistogramma. Because gudgeons occupy the same sort of territories and have similar behaviour, they do the same thing.
The dances steps are these:
You buy a pair. One dies.
You buy a replacement male or female.
One of your two fish, sometimes the old one, dies.
Repeat as many times as you want.

It can go on through many fish. I think it's stress related to territoriality. I was only able to stop the cycle if I added 3 fish at once, in a larger tank, after having removed and redesigned the entire layout. You add the new ones when no turf belongs to anyone. The fish that arrives in someone else's territory will either be hyper-aggressive from fear, or will be so shaken by the store experience that it gives up the ghost as soon as it's challenged.

Don't kid yourself that only males have territory. Females have their turf too, in most territorial fish.

 

[Rocky998]

There is a thing I call "the dance of death' that I learned when I was breeding Apistogramma. Because gudgeons occupy the same sort of territories and have similar behaviour, they do the same thing.
The dances steps are these:
You buy a pair. One dies.
You buy a replacement male or female.
One of your two fish, sometimes the old one, dies.
Repeat as many times as you want.

It can go on through many fish. I think it's stress related to territoriality. I was only able to stop the cycle if I added 3 fish at once, in a larger tank, after having removed and redesigned the entire layout. You add the new ones when no turf belongs to anyone. The fish that arrives in someone else's territory will either be hyper-aggressive from fear, or will be so shaken by the store experience that it gives up the ghost as soon as it's challenged.

Don't kid yourself that only males have territory. Females have their turf too, in most territorial fish.

Thank you! It does make total sense... I mean how would I feel if I got married and we had a house together and all of a sudden some random dude comes walking in... That would be a bit strange and obviously we would identify it as a threat

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

There is a thing I call "the dance of death' that I learned when I was breeding Apistogramma. Because gudgeons occupy the same sort of territories and have similar behaviour, they do the same thing.
The dances steps are these:
You buy a pair. One dies.
You buy a replacement male or female.
One of your two fish, sometimes the old one, dies.
Repeat as many times as you want.

It can go on through many fish. I think it's stress related to territoriality. I was only able to stop the cycle if I added 3 fish at once, in a larger tank, after having removed and redesigned the entire layout. You add the new ones when no turf belongs to anyone. The fish that arrives in someone else's territory will either be hyper-aggressive from fear, or will be so shaken by the store experience that it gives up the ghost as soon as it's challenged.

Don't kid yourself that only males have territory. Females have their turf too, in most territorial fish.

This post, and the talk about gudeons, reminds me of the sparkling gourami a previous poster had. Ideally a small group or trio of one male with two females, but one female will be dominant, and sometimes decide to brutalise the more submissive female, and take shreds out of the male from time to time, even while they were breeding. I'll try and see if I can find her threads about it, could be useful for OP.

Eventually, she needed to remove the submissive female since she was being beaten down and chased too much. All the advice was to have a small group, but they seem to have a pretty complex hierarchy and defined territories, that getting the right balance enough space and hardscape/plants to allow them to create defined territories - and as you said, introducing them in the right way while carefully observing to monitor and rescue where needed... sound as though they're similar fish to these gudeons, and your apistos.

 

[Rocky998]

I

This post, and the talk about gudeons, reminds me of the sparkling gourami a previous poster had. Ideally a small group or trio of one male with two females, but one female will be dominant, and sometimes decide to brutalise the more submissive female, and take shreds out of the male from time to time, even while they were breeding. I'll try and see if I can find her threads about it, could be useful for OP.

Eventually, she needed to remove the submissive female since she was being beaten down and chased too much. All the advice was to have a small group, but they seem to have a pretty complex hierarchy and defined territories, that getting the right balance enough space and hardscape/plants to allow them to create defined territories - and as you said, introducing them in the right way while carefully observing to monitor and rescue where needed... sound as though they're similar fish to these gudeons, and your apistos.

I dont like my dominant gudgeon... I mean I love its coloration. It has the best I've ever seen but I don't want it to interfere with anything... It doesn't chase my other one around much but sometimes he/she will dart at the other gudgeon. For the most part though they swim side by side and seem to enjoy each others company... I'm beginning to think that the really colorful one is a male... I think I see the hump developing on its head

 

[itiwhetu]

I

I dont like my dominant gudgeon... I mean I love its coloration. It has the best I've ever seen but I don't want it to interfere with anything... It doesn't chase my other one around much but sometimes he/she will dart at the other gudgeon. For the most part though they swim side by side and seem to enjoy each others company... I'm beginning to think that the really colorful one is a male... I think I see the hump developing on its head

Can you get a photo of the two fish together so we can have a look and see if we can help you.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I

I dont like my dominant gudgeon... I mean I love its coloration. It has the best I've ever seen but I don't want it to interfere with anything... It doesn't chase my other one around much but sometimes he/she will dart at the other gudgeon. For the most part though they swim side by side and seem to enjoy each others company... I'm beginning to think that the really colorful one is a male... I think I see the hump developing on its head

I can't help with sexing them I'm afraid.

One of them will always be the dominant one though, even if you introduce new ones and a different one takes over as the dominant one. Just seems to be the nature of this type of fish, a part of their social hierarchy.

 

[itiwhetu]

Some fish are way more complicated to keep than others, these and a lot of Cichlids fall into the way more complicated basket. Therefore, sometimes it is better to start out with easy fish to keep and then later move on to the more challenging ones. Right at the beginning I said get the Rasboras first and then move on to these guys.

 

[Rocky998]

Can you get a photo of the two fish together so we can have a look and see if we can help you.

I can't at the moment... Its night time lol

 

[Rocky998]

Some fish are way more complicated to keep than others, these and a lot of Cichlids fall into the way more complicated basket. Therefore, sometimes it is better to start out with easy fish to keep and then later move on to the more challenging ones. Right at the beginning I said get the Rasboras first and then move on to these guys.

And its hard enough getting a pic of one, but two together?... I can try I guess

 

[itiwhetu]

I decided it was time to look up Dr Axelrod for his spin on these fish. I have posted his description and the index that tells you what the symbols mean. This information is from his Atlas 2007.