Im About To Get My New Tank

[paulypaul182]

Hi guys,

Im new to this site and have spent most of the day looking at the posts and replies in this section. Im getting confused now though so I thought Id put all my questions and my current situation into one post so I have all the info to hand.

I kept tropical fish before, about 18 months ago. I was doing this for about 3 years give or take. I moved home several times during that time so I lost a few also.
I am now about to take this up again. A friend of my is giving me a 30x21x12" tank complete with filter, heater and lights. Also a couple of fish, Im not sure what they are or how big they are.
After pricing up a stand for this tank, I realised that I couldnt afford a stand on top of the intial outlay I need to setup the tank. I have an old chest of draws which is barely used in my bedroom. After standing on it (Im 14 and a half stone) and jumping up and down, I am very confident that this would be strong enough for the tank. The chest of draws is about 5 inches bigger on all sides of the tank too and the top of it has a piece of wood that is just under two inches thick. These are pictures of it:










I have now gone and ordered a few things for the tank:

Interpet AP1 Air Pump 1
Betta Air Line 3m 1
Betta Air Curtain 30cm 1
Interpet No.1 Fresh Start 1
Interpet No.14 Filter Start 1
Interpet No.6 Anti White Spot 1
Aquarian Tropical Flake 25g 1
Tetra FreshDelica Bloodworm 1
Tetra FreshDelica Daphnia 1
Aquarium Sand 5kg 2
Vallis, Straight (Vallisneria Spiralis) 4
Water Wisteria (Hygrophila difformis) 3
Telanthera lilacina 2
Kent Ammonia Detox 1oz
Juwel Poster up to 100cm

Im a bit worried about the sand. Not only do I think Ive ordered far too much (10kg) but Ive also read an article saying there can be problems with air bubbles (or something like that. You can see how I got lost with that one). Has anyone any simple recommendations regarding the sand? I opted for sand because I like the look of it and Ive done the gravel thing already. Ive also heard its much easier to maintain.
Now, when I used to run a tank all that time ago I didnt bother with Ph testing and nitrate, nitrite and amonia were something I didnt even know about. I just assumed that these were for marine aquarium. Ive also seen articles regarding water hardness, substrate for plants, CO2 kits etc etc!!!! I never did any of these and I seemed to have a pretty good tank. I always did fortnightly 20% water changes whilst cleaning the filter sponge in the old water. I always conditioned the new water. Now Im reading about water cycles and doing this for a month!!! I used to use a very big well known aquatic centre for my products and for advice and no one ever told me all this.
Well, I have everything arriving on Saturday including these two fish. I am now worried about doing all this right so can people give me some advice on the setup? Im going to asking my mate to put the filter sponge and the fish in a bucket of the aquarium water before they bring it all over in the vein hope that I may keep some of the good bacteria. Will this help?
Finally, onto the live stock. I have a list of fish that im researching. I know I cant have all the fish so Im trying to find the ones that need the same water conditions and ones that wont bite each others head off or need a bungalow for themselves in 2 years. I did have on my list Bala Sharks, Common Plec and pencil fish but people are saying to stay away from them. I can understand the Bala Shark and Common plec as they are monsters but is the Pencil Fish so bad? I also have on my list Sword Tails, Half Beaks, Silver Dollars, White Clouds (superb fish), Peacock Gudgeon, Finger Fish, Dwarf Sucker Cat, Coolie Loach and Shrimp. Again, I know I cannot possibly have all but Im still in the stages of researching them. I also beleive that the Half Beaks, Gudgeons and Finger Fish a few and far between. As you can see, Im really into the weird and wonderful. Im not into beautiful and fancy fish. Any suggestions? Also, how many should I keep in my tank so not to over stock it? Ive also seen various other animals to put in the tank like mussels and even an aquatic frog, but maybe im being a little daft. But I think you can see what kind of species I would like and it truely wouldnt be Siamese Fighters, Guppies, Mollies or Angels.
So, Im ready to go with the equipment but now I feel like I need to buy a chemistry kit and a biology professor.
Your help would be heartedly received.

 

[fishlover500]

The tank stand should be fine, but just so you know the tank with water will weigh about 300 pounds.
About the sand, I wouldn't go over 1 inch because you get nitrate pockets that can build up and then be released into the tank. For the most part your fish list is good, except I don't know info on all of them so get a second opinion. Also make sure that the filter is mature and during the move stays full of water.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, this is a very perceptive post Paul. Its very difficult when you've kept a tank before and things haven't gone terribly wrong to notice and admit to yourself that there may indeed be quite a bit you hadn't known about before. And you are right on the mark that what you need (or what at least I think you would be wise to study) are some new skills and perhaps some re-ordering of the priorities of your questions to go along with all that nice new equipment that's coming. One good skill you already have is that of changing your water and of using old tank water to clean your filter media - those are good things.

Unfortunately, you are going to get a "trial by fire" here with fish coming in a bucket if you do it as described. The filter in an aquarium is the place that harbors all the significant bacteria needed for a working biofilter. Without a biofilter, you will be having to change water like crazy every day probably. The best emergency advice I think I can give you right away is to get on the phone to the person you are getting the tank from and see if you can arrange to have them help you keep all the filter media (we call it "mature media" and think of it as very valuable!) and to keep it wet -- there may be several ways to do this depending on how long the transport will be. The media could be kept underwater (in the tank water of course -- not tap water as that will have chlorination products that kill bacteria) in sealed plastic kitchen containers perhaps and they could go like that for 5 hours or so without too much die-off of the bacteria beginning. Again, to emphasize, the reason the filter media is so important (despite looking mucky!) is that the tank water the fish come in will have almost no bacteria -- it will mostly all be in the filter media.

It will take some time to get the hang of all this biology stuff we talk about, but it is well worth it and the sooner you can begin reading the beginner articles in the "New to the Hobby" forum, the better. I know it will seem more important to decide about new fish and plants and decor and stuff but believe me, learning the water chemistry topic will be the best timing of your efforts right now. Significantly absent from your list (although perhaps you have one) is a liquid-reagent based test kit. Many here us the API Freshwater Master Test Kit or the Nutrafin Mini-Master test kit. These are important for getting accurate readings of ammonia, nitrite(NO2), pH and nitrate(NO3) - ironically, a kit like this is much, much more important than any chemicals, other than a good dechlorination/dechloramination product.

So let us know if you are able to get the mature media along with the new fish, or if, even better, there is some other "home" the fish can go to so you can get a proper start to your new tank.. but this will depend on whether you like the fish, whether the mature media lives through the move and other stuff like that.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[paulypaul182]

Ill ask them to only deliver one bag of sand then. Im going to have live plants in there, should I get some fine gravel or even plant substrate to go under the sand?

 

[waterdrop]

Lots of members here really like sand. There's nothing wrong with sand, just takes a lighter touch on the gravel-cleaning technique and many can explain that to you when the time comes.

~~waterdrop~~
ps. despite jumping on it, I have to say that stand looks a bit scary in the pics, but you will have to be the final judge -- it may be fine -- perhaps some sort of strong back brace to keep it from folding sideways?

 

[paulypaul182]

Yes, this is a very perceptive post Paul. Its very difficult when you've kept a tank before and things haven't gone terribly wrong to notice and admit to yourself that there may indeed be quite a bit you hadn't known about before. And you are right on the mark that what you need (or what at least I think you would be wise to study) are some new skills and perhaps some re-ordering of the priorities of your questions to go along with all that nice new equipment that's coming. One good skill you already have is that of changing your water and of using old tank water to clean your filter media - those are good things.

Unfortunately, you are going to get a "trial by fire" here with fish coming in a bucket if you do it as described. The filter in an aquarium is the place that harbors all the significant bacteria needed for a working biofilter. Without a biofilter, you will be having to change water like crazy every day probably. The best emergency advice I think I can give you right away is to get on the phone to the person you are getting the tank from and see if you can arrange to have them help you keep all the filter media (we call it "mature media" and think of it as very valuable!) and to keep it wet -- there may be several ways to do this depending on how long the transport will be. The media could be kept underwater (in the tank water of course -- not tap water as that will have chlorination products that kill bacteria) in sealed plastic kitchen containers perhaps and they could go like that for 5 hours or so without too much die-off of the bacteria beginning. Again, to emphasize, the reason the filter media is so important (despite looking mucky!) is that the tank water the fish come in will have almost no bacteria -- it will mostly all be in the filter media.

It will take some time to get the hang of all this biology stuff we talk about, but it is well worth it and the sooner you can begin reading the beginner articles in the "New to the Hobby" forum, the better. I know it will seem more important to decide about new fish and plants and decor and stuff but believe me, learning the water chemistry topic will be the best timing of your efforts right now. Significantly absent from your list (although perhaps you have one) is a liquid-reagent based test kit. Many here us the API Freshwater Master Test Kit or the Nutrafin Mini-Master test kit. These are important for getting accurate readings of ammonia, nitrite(NO2), pH and nitrate(NO3) - ironically, a kit like this is much, much more important than any chemicals, other than a good dechlorination/dechloramination product.

So let us know if you are able to get the mature media along with the new fish, or if, even better, there is some other "home" the fish can go to so you can get a proper start to your new tank.. but this will depend on whether you like the fish, whether the mature media lives through the move and other stuff like that.

~~waterdrop~~

Should I ask the LFS to cancel the live plants? I was unsure when to introduce them. Also, Ill ask them to cancel some of the chemicals too and just have the conditioner and get a test kit instead.

If all goes well with the filter media, do you think it would take long to get the cycle up to scratch?

As you said, it is difficult going from how I used to do this to how Im going to do it now. I must admit, when I first started keeping tropical fish, I lost one or two fairly quick. As I did not know about good bacteria etc etc, I just assumed it was disease.

Im mainly doing this for my daughter. She loves looking at fish so Im hoping that maybe one day she'll enjoy doing this.

Just out of interest, what do you think about the list of fish I have and how many should I have in a tank that size?

 

[paulypaul182]

Lots of members here really like sand. There's nothing wrong with sand, just takes a lighter touch on the gravel-cleaning technique and many can explain that to you when the time comes.

~~waterdrop~~
ps. despite jumping on it, I have to say that stand looks a bit scary in the pics, but you will have to be the final judge -- it may be fine -- perhaps some sort of strong back brace to keep it from folding sideways?

I think the drawers in it would stabalise it just as good as a back brace. Its a very good construction and seems rugged enough. Its better than my first option...a coffee table haha. Its basically a very heavy duty chest of draws which is extremely heavy. Ill be putting some polystrene underneath the tank as well to give the tank some stability. I dont know if im fooling myself because an extra &0 quid on top of what ive payed for the items being delivered on saturday will kill me haha.

 

[waterdrop]

Use polystyrene if the entire bottom sheet of glass will be resting. If its what's called a "floating base" (one with a plastic or wood rim around it that lifts the bottom glass sheet up) then don't put the poly under it, as it may make it higher and less stable and the rim weight may crush down through the poly unevenly -- this is what I've read.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[waterdrop]

Its fine to get the plants. They can be put in no matter what you decide to do, fishless cycling or whatever. Ammonia detox chems and filter start bacteria are not needed in my opinion. If one of those is the dechlor/dechloram then that is needed. Seachem Prime is a very good dechlor product, although there are also some good pond dechlor products that can make it even cheaper I hear.

Just haven't commented about fish because you'll have tons of time to discuss this while the tank cycles, whether fishless, or "fish-in" -- don't know about pencils.. I'd stay away from swords if you don't want to be figuring out what to do with lots of babies.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[paulypaul182]

Right, Ill have a chat with my mate and ask them to submerge the filter in the aquarium water for me while they transport it here. Ill also ask what kind of fish they have and how big they are. I could also do with knowing what filter they have as well.
Ill cancel 5kgs of sand which will leave me with 5kgs for this tank. Should I get the gravel or a plant substrate to go underneath it? Ill also cancel some of them chemicals but keep the de-chlor/dechloram and also order a test kit.

Once I get that lot done, Ill post back here with the answers. Thanks for your time tonight mate.

 

[waterdrop]

Good, presumably they won't submerge any external parts of the filter that shouldn't get wet such as electricals. It will be good to know as much as you can about the filter. Filters are the single most important piece of equipment in the hobby and they are not handled in as "standard" a manner as one might think. For instance, many aquarists make there own decisions about what media to use and don't use the manufacturers recommendations necessarily. Also its good to learn about the pros and cons of different media and when it should be used.

The reason its good to know early as it can impact the cycling process you'll be learning about and doing. See ya,

~~waterdrop~~

 

[paulypaul182]

Ive taken some of that from my order and added some plant substrate and a test kit to it. The only kit they have in stock is a Tetra 5 in 1 http/www.aquatic-store.co.uk/tropical/view/1014.

Ive spoken to my mate who tells me that the fish she has in the tank are 2x Plecs. Shes not sure what type but she is going to send me a photo later. She also doesnt know the make of the filter and doesnt know what media is in it so Im guessing she hasnt maintained it. I think it was her ex's who left 2 weeks back. Again, hopefully a photo may enlighten me or someone on here. She is going to be bringing over some gravel from the tank as well as some water and the filter. She also has some rocks which are in the tank.

Im still a little concerned (not overly) about what Im going to use to put the tank on. Last night, I put another chest of draws on it which would be about 80 pounds. I then stood on that and jumped around. Obviously all worked out because Id be in hospital if it didnt. My friend has a very heavy duty table which she used as the stand for 2 years. Shes also sending a photo of that so if its any good then I may take that of her too.

Can someone tell me how long plants can survive out of water in a transit bag?

 

[waterdrop]

Plants can survive a long time as long as there's plenty of moisture in there I'd think - shouldn't be full of water but there should be plenty to splash around and keep things wet - I'm assuming your transit won't really be all that long...

Unfortunately you may be making a serious mistake re the test kit. 5 in 1 strips are worthless or worse in that some of their readings may be misleading - so not good to waste the money. Whatever it takes (internet or whatever), you need to find a good liquid based kit like the members here mostly all use -- its invaluable during the beginner stages.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[K-Holed]

Can i double check with you, you listed your tank size as 30x21x12. Is that correct, or is it 30x12x12? Seems like a very deep tank if it's 21, not completely unheard of but it can cause problems with lighting for plants.

 

[paulypaul182]

Can i double check with you, you listed your tank size as 30x21x12. Is that correct, or is it 30x12x12? Seems like a very deep tank if it's 21, not completely unheard of but it can cause problems with lighting for plants.

When she emailed me she put 77cm/53cm/31cm