Ich Treatment Questions: Salt + Heat + Medicine Too Much?

[Klonoa50]

Hi all!
 
Newcomer(-ish) to the forums here.  Thought if I was gonna do the fish thing again I'd to it right.  : P  I recently started up a new tank and just got everything cycled.  I did a fish-in cycle for a variety of reasons (basically ignorance) but everyone survived and did great.  I added 2 new cherries roughly a week ago now, and it appears they brought Ich along for the ride.  They were added after the cycle was completed.  I did a whole bunch of research online (and got a lot of help from Ninjouzata, who is AWESOME), and figured out the two main cures are either medicine or heat + salt.  I also read several people who did all 3, so I kinda went that route (more info below).  Ninjouzata thought doing the trifecta might be a bad thing, so thought I'd get some more feedback on that, and also here if anyone had any additional thoughts/suggestions.  Thanks in advance!
 
Tank size: 36 gallons
pH:  Never tested it myself.  The LFS (who I have test my water to verify my readings) says it's neutral (maybe a touch acidic)
ammonia: 0 ppm
nitrite: 0 ppm
nitrate: 5-10 ppm (varies every time I test it, even back to back.  I blame myself for incompetent shaking skills.  : P)
kH: Not sure what this is.
gH: See kH.
tank temp:  82.  Normally 78-80, but brought it up due to the ich.

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):
The fish pretty clearly have ich.  The two cherries have prolyl about 6-8 "salt flecks" each now, and were flashing the other day.  Now they appear to swing between listless and normal.

Volume and Frequency of water changes:
I normally do a 30% water change a week (2 15% changes, yay 5-gallon bucket).  When I first noticed the flashing (before I knew it was ich) I did 1 15% change daily.  I have stopped doing changes since I added the Maracide (yesterday).

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:
Normal cermic orb stuff (for my biofilter)
Sponge for mechanical filter (both a pre-sponge and one actually in the filter.  I have an Aquaclear setup if that helps any).
No Carbon media.
 
Just added a full dose of Maracide yesterday as per the bottle (10 mL per 10 gallons).  Added over the course of an hour to try and not shock the fish too bad.
Half the recommended salt dosage (3.5 tablespoons for the whole tank).

Tank inhabitants:
1 Balloon Molly
1 Lyretail Golden Panda Molly
2 Cherry Barbs

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):
The two cherries.  The plan was to build to 6 over 3 weeks (2 per week).  Will be putting that on hold until the ich is clearly gone and life is happy in the tank again. 

Exposure to chemicals:
None (other then the maracide of course)

Digital photo (include if possible):
Sorry, no go. 

  My phone takes pictures that even I can't make out. 

 
My biggest questions are:
1) Should I be doing a water change to yank the salt out?  As I mentioned earlier, I don't know if the trifecta is a bad thing (the fish don't seem to be reacting badly to it, and they didn't yesterday either when I added it all in over a couple hours).
2) I notice the water isn't dyed, and that my pre-filter (same material as the aquaclear sponge, took one and chopped it into a quarter to guard fish from the suction, not that that should be a problem), is now a lovely teal.  I assume it sucked out the color and left in the chemicals (since a sponge absorbing the chemicals doesn't seem to make sense in my head), but I wanted to check with everyone.
Again, thanks for the help, and if I'm posting in the wrong spot, lemme know! 

 
Augh.  I proofread it 3 times and hit enter.  THEN I notice all the typos. 

 

[rpgmomma8404]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I did the salt and heat. I almost medicated my tanks because it wasn't clearing up and I was worried about my fish. I gave it a day or so then it started to clear up. I say if you can avoid putting anymore chemicals into the water then what you already have to do to make the water safe. Then do so. I would say in really bad cases where it's almost impossible to get rid of with just salt and heat. Medication on top of those might be a better option. This is just my opinion. I didn't know much about it either. Advice from here and reading stuff helped me out. I'm sure everyone is going to have a different opinion though. [/SIZE]

 

[NeonBlueLeon]

No matter what method you choose, salt + heat or meds, you'll have to wait for the Ich parasite's life cycle to enter it's vulnerable stages.  When the Ich causes the white spots on the fish, it is not vulnerable to treatment  at that time.  Only when the Ich parasite is in its free swimming/floating stages will it be vulnerable to treatment.  Because of these facts, you may have to wait a few days before you see any changes. 
 
In a tropical tank, the life cycle of Ich can be anywhere from 3-7 days.  The heat in any Ich treatment is meant to speed up the life cycle, thereby shortening the time needed to see results and eradicate the parasite.  I've once brought a tank up to 90 degrees (fish were fine) and the Ich was cleared in 3 days.  Of course, keep treating for at least 5 days after you can't see any Ich spots to ensure full eradication.

Also, I have found meds to perform poorly.  Heat and salt will do the job alone.   Good luck!

 

[dave840f1]

If my fish get Ich I use one of two meds. Depending what I can acquire. (Not at the same time). I can recommend WS3 or Cuprazin for treatment 100% success rate with both of these. I see you live in the States so I don't know if you can buy them there.

 

[Meeresstille]

I only ever did the heat salt method, considered meds but found them too risky. Some you need to remove the plants, some you can't use if you have snails or shrimp, some you need to remove the filter since it would kill the beneficial bacteria.
 
The one thing that stuck out for me doing the research before deciding on the salt and heat method was that one should never mix different treatments unless it is stated that it is OK to do so. Each treatment is stressful on the fish and you could end up killing your fish if you mix treatments.

 

[Klonoa50]

Hey all!  Thanks for all the feedback.  I've done a lot more research, and from what I can tell, I need to choose one option or the other.  Based on the research I've done, salt appears to be the best way to treat the fish I have, so I will be going with that.  I've read several different articles on the amounts of salt that can be used, and wanted to get everybody's opinion... how much salt do you generally use to treat ich? 
 
Things appear to be getting progressively worse, with one of my fish having at least 15 trophonts that I can make out on her (she only had one or two yesterday).  She's still acting quite healthy though.

 

[Klonoa50]

It seems the most common salt amount is 2-3 tablespoons per 5 gallons, so unless anyone objects, I'm going to start building up to that.  I'm currently at 1 tablespoon/5 gallons now.
 
The fish that was covered in ich yesterday appears to be doing much worse.  She's floating at about a 60 degree angle in the tank, and has long periods of listlessness followed by violent bursts of activity.  Unless something drastically changes, I imagine I'll lose her. 

 

[NeonBlueLeon]

I agree, 2 tbsp per 5 gallons will work.  Unfortunately, Ich lives off the host, so with enough trophonts attached, a fish can simply become overwhelmed.  Hopefully he/she can pull through!

 

[Klonoa50]

Just wanted to thank everyone again for the help.  I'm doing daily water changes, and have the tank at roughly 2 tablespoons per 5 gallons.  The last two days things have been slowly but surely getting better, with the number of trophonts slowly but surely decreasing on the barbs, and as far as I can tell, no new ones are attaching.  The mollies remain perfectly healthy... I'm wondering if they've dealt with an ich outbreak before (I read on the internet fish can grow resistant after surviving an attack), or maybe it's because they were healthy to start with.
 
I don't think the cherries are out of the woods yet (still very pale and listless), but I think they've gotten through the worst of it.  Hopefully they have enough energy left to pull through to the other side.  : )

 

[NeonBlueLeon]

My first Ich outbreak was carried from mollies too.  Maybe it's a coincidence, maybe not, but I feel like mollies are just more resistant against Ich.  They did however, manage to wipe out more than half of my small (at the time) shoal of rummynoses.
 
Funny part is, the two mollies that brought Ich into my tank ended up getting rehomed because of aggression issues.  After that, I invested in a QT.

 

[Klonoa50]

Yeah... the first tank I had was a molly tank and most of 'em were aggressive... I think that probably had more to do with the tank size then anything else though.  Didn't know what I was doing on that tank, had 4 mollies in 10 gallons.  : P  They are hardy little buggers though, based on my friend's and my own experiences.
 
Yeah, I think I might need to look into a QT, especially since I'm just now starting to stock up my tank.
 
Everything appears to be getting better in the tank.  : )  Only one cherry left has any visible ich on her, and they both are acting relatively healthy again (eating, actually swimming around a bit, appear relatively alert, back to normal color, etc).    They both appear to have slight swim bladder issues still (float up or down very slowly in the water when they don't move), and one of them is still spending most of her time hiding in the plants, but I'm fairly confident they'll pull through at this point.  : )

 

[NeonBlueLeon]

That's good news!  Some freshwater fish will swim funny in salty water.
 
I'm glad your fish pulled through! 

 

[Klonoa50]

Hey all!  Dunno if there's a way to close these or not (if so lemme know and I'll do it) but everything appears to be back to normal in the tank.  The ich's all gone, the cherries are swimming happily again, and life is good.  Will leave the salt/heat treatment going another couple days to make sure I catch any remaining free-floaters, then will slowly drop everything back down to normal.  Thanks for all the help and advice! 

 

[NeonBlueLeon]

Great to hear that!  I don't think there's a need to close this thread.  You can leave it. 
 
Great job treating the tank!  You are much wiser now, can you feel it? Hehe.

 

[Fishmanic]

will Plecos survive the salt/heat treatment?  How about Corys?