I Finally Bit The Bullet And Added The Ammonia, Cycling Started...

[thrujenseyes]

 
"Oh yes- regarding that second dose, not only must your ammonia be under .75 ppm, but be sure "nitrite is clearly over 2 ppm". The reason is that will indicate that nitrite is indeed rising. Bear in mind we normally expect to see as much as 2.5 ppm of nitrite for every 1 ppm tthat ammonia drops. Since you started with 3 ppm. I  would expect you to be showing a lot more nitrite than .25 ppm. Can you retest please and be sure you have done it correctly?"
 
 
 
 

Two tank amin,
 
I see where the confusion was ...I was thinking my nitrites were were they were suppose to be because I was forgetting the decimal (huge difference, I know).
 
Last night they were .25 and I realize now they are to be above 2.0!  Big difference.
And yes, ammonia must be down to .75.
 
I'm getting it....veeeerrrrryyyy slowly.  ha
 
And I'm sorry...I know I keep using the "quote" feature wrong.  
 
I'll figure it out!

 

[Gruntle]

Sounds like you're getting ready for dose #2 (3ppm). Your live plants seem to be absorbing some of the ammonia, which may explain why the nitrite isn't as high as we would expect.
 
Remember that Dose #3 is only 1ppm and only after you get two consecutive "every second day" readings of 0ppm for ammonia. This will give your nitrite bacs a chance to build up their numbers and reduce the amount of nitrite and avoid the cycle stalling.
 
Keep us updated please.

 

[thrujenseyes]

Oh I definitely will gruntle!

And I will probably have a million more questions between now and dose three!

I still have to test for tonight... I'll get to that shortly.

 

[thrujenseyes]

Ok as of 10pm

Ammonia down a tad more to .50

And nitrite up a tad more, also .50

Slow but progressing.. Right!?

But still not ready for dose two.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Yep, it is progressing, cycling like to take its own time, as long as tank water is at desired temperature and filter giving water flow, not a lot more you can do but twiddle your thumbs.
 
Patience is key

 

[thrujenseyes]

I'm just happy to know it's going the way it should (knock wood).
 
I'll be over here twiddling my thumbs 

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I still cannot see why nitrite is not higher, 3 plants won't put a dent in ammonia. If the ammonia is dropping, where are the nitrites? Is there any chance you moved things over from an established tank when you set this one up?
 
There are usually two reasons why nitrite might not be as expected- lots of plants or some form of seeding bacteria either using a bottled product that works or else using things from an established tank. With plants, they would use ammonia but not produce nitrite. With seeding you start with some level of nitrite bacs right away. This give one a jump start on that phase. Some amount of the nitrite will be converted right away and that holds down the total. And since you started with nitrite bacs they grow faster overall. 10 of them would double to become 20 but 100 would become 200. This is the big benefit of seeding.

 

[thrujenseyes]

I still cannot see why nitrite is not higher, 3 plants won't put a dent in ammonia. If the ammonia is dropping, where are the nitrites? Is there any chance you moved things over from an established tank when you set this one up?
 
There are usually two reasons why nitrite might not be as expected- lots of plants or some form of seeding bacteria either using a bottled product that works or else using things from an established tank. With plants, they would use ammonia but not produce nitrite. With seeding you start with some level of nitrite bacs right away. This give one a jump start on that phase. Some amount of the nitrite will be converted right away and that holds down the total. And since you started with nitrite bacs they grow faster overall. 10 of them would double to become 20 but 100 would become 200. This is the big benefit of seeding.

 
well.....the three plants I have came from an established tank.
 
should I be doing something different?!
 
Keep in mind that I have 2 snails in there too that are pottying also
...the snails were hitchhikers on the plants apparently

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Ammonia becomes nitrite, until one has enough nitrite bacs you see rising nitrites. I would have expected to see yours going higher. The ammonia has to be going somewhere and we should be able to figure it out.
 
Also in reading back up I am now confused, You said dcimal issues and nitrite was really 2 ppm. then more ammonia was processed and the result should be more nitrite yet your last post says its down to .50 from the prior 2.0.
 
The one consolation here is that even 6 ppm of ammonia can only make a maximum of 15.4 ppm of nitrite. And this is still below the danger line. So if you have somehow gotten or reported wrong results for nitrite, adding another 3 ppm of ammonia should not do any harm. But when you do add the second dose, make sure you are testing nitrite and that you reported it correctly here.

 

[thrujenseyes]

Two tank admin...

Here's what the cycle has truly been so far:

Day 1: added 3ppm ammonia

Day 2: it dropped to 1.5

Day 3: ammonia 1.0 and nitrite .25

Day 4: ammonia .50 and nitrite .50

Day 5 (right now): ammonia barely budged maybe a .40
And nitrite up to a solid 2.0

What should I do?

 

[Gruntle]

TTA,
 
I think the post said "Last night they were 0.25 and I realize now they are to be above 2.0" so they hadn't reached the 2ppm level.
 
Jen, if your nitrites have reached the 2.0ppm and your ammonia is below 0.75ppm (which I believe is the case) then it's time for your second dose of 3ppm of ammonia!
 
Start testing for ammonia and nitrites every other (second) day (day 7, day 9 etc). Your nitrite will continue to climb to the point where it's higher than the 5ppm at the top of the API kit (bright purple). unfortunately the test won't read any higher than 5ppm unless you do diluted tests, but rest assured if you don't overdose the ammonia it won't get above 16ppm (which is roughly the limit at which your cycle will stall). Which is why it's important to only dose to 1ppm for the "snack" dose, which is once you get two "every other day" readings of 0ppm ammonia (so in effect 2 days apart, possibly 3 days with zero ammonia).
 
After this snack dose, it's important for your nitrites to drop below 1ppm and ammonia below 0.25ppm before re-dosing. Once you get to this point it's time to start daily testing.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Based on your clarification, Gruntle got it right.
 
As I think I should have stated earlier is the reason you want to see at least 2 ppm of nitrite is to know it is being created. A cycle tends to start slowly and then it moves faster in terms of ammonia, then it starts slow with the nitrite and takes time to speed up.
 
Adding plants and or seeding bacteria will cause things to happen faster and levels not to rise as high along the way. Unless one is planting somewhat heavily or seeding bottled bacteria, it can be difficult to pinpoint how much help one is actually getting from these things. It sure looks like you are getting some help from the few plants and whatever bacteria they might have on them.  Normally it takes 10-14 days for ammonia to drop close to 0 after the first dose.
 
The other thing I normally advise is to use the ammonia calculator to determine how much ammonia to add rather that dosing and testing and then trying to adjust. That way when you do the subsequent doses you add the exact same amount by volume with no need to test to see what you added. And the snak dose becomes 1/3 the volume of the rest, easy peasy. Its too easy to mess up dosing and testing vs calculating.

 

[thrujenseyes]

Omg I AM ready for my second dose!

I don't know why I have such a difficult time seeing these numbers and realizing where they are in the scale. ( other than I'm really bad with numbers, and I'm constantly second guessing myself).

I did use this calculator to figure out how much ammonia to add but the tool i was using to measure and add the ammonia is a plastic medicine dropper from Walmart and it gets air bubbles in it so it's hard to tell exactly how much is in there (which is why I had to add a tad more to get to the 3ppm) but I think I know how much to add this time (dose two). And I should get myself a more accurate tool.

going to dose #2 right now!!! Yay!!!

I really appreciate this help!! I do have the article printed and I even made myself a huge chart and have it on the wall so I can see what's going on but somehow I still get turned around and nervous.

This thread is really helping me!

Thank you!!

Oh and TTA, yes gruntles clarification was correct!


{I think the post said "Last night they were 0.25 and I realize now they are to be above 2.0" so they hadn't reached the 2ppm level.}

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Jen let me quote from the cover of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
 
 
 
DON"T PANIC
 
 
 
You are doing just fine. You have no fish in your tank, so even if you do mess things up really badly, you simply start over. But the odds of this happening here are very, very small. One can make a whole bunch of different mistakes and still get a tank cycled as long as the mistake is not adding too much ammonia.

 

[thrujenseyes]

Thanks so much TTA, that gave me a chuckle!

See how neurotic I've been...
Here's a shot of my "chart"