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[billieollie]

This message is to Random wiktor.

I have listened to peoples advice on this site, but had already been given advice by the pet store before hand. Do you think that I am happy with what is going on with my fish. I have just bought them a 5ft fish tank for 400.00pounds sterling to give them a nice place to live. I have had bilie and ollie for over 2 years, my daughter won them at the fun fair. We didnt expect them to live longer than a week, but they did. Over 2/3 years we have increased the size of their tank three times, without any problems. Whether it is the water or the 4 new fish that I bought that have caused this to happen, i dont know. I just did excatly the same that I had done before. Thank you for your advice, but I really do not need to read your comments directed to me. I am sitting here watching 5 beautiful fish dying in front of my eyes and I am trying everything possible to save them. Every morning my daughter runs to the tank to see how they are, do you think its nice for me to tell her that Ollie has died and that the others will not last much longer, she is 5 years old.

 

[WILDER]

I'm sorry it's not sounding to good bless them, i don't no what else to suggest, as everything possible has been done for them, it's sad, i have goldfish and you do get very attached to them, as they have lovely personalites, i feel for you, just hold in there, i looked after my sister goldfish, she bought 4 and had them in a 6gal, i had to keep buying them new tanks, i lost 3 and had to watch them die it was awful, but i managed to save one, tweety pie and i love him to bits, and he's nearly three now.

 

[RandomWiktor]

((I have sent you a PM detailing my explaination/apology moreso since I did not want to take up too much of your thread))
BillieOllie - I realize you are trying hard to save your fish and have tried all you can thus far. For that, I respect and commend you; it must be very difficult.
As mentioned, I feel that you were mislead by your LFS and do not feel this was your fault at all. I was just suggesting that in the future, you take the LFS's advice with a huge grain of salt as they often times deliberately mislead customers. It sounded at several points as though you were trusting them more than other members (ie. when we suggested to clean the tank more often and such), so I was just pointing out that should you have another fish emergency, you should be wary of what the LFS tells you. I wasn't attempting to be insulting; I was just offering cautionary advice. Perhaps it came off the wrong way.

If you are referring to the quote in my sig, though I do not get that impression, that was something I had on my webpage a while ago and simply chose to put on since this is a fish forum. It isn't directed to you. I'm aware that you love your fish and have been pouring plenty of time and money into trying to save them.

Sorry to double-post, but I just thought of something.

The fuzz on the goldfish sounds like what they call "body fungus," which is not usually real fungus, but a bacterial infection. It sounds about right considering the ammonia spike. Did it happen to start on the face? If so, it could be columnaris, which is why it is progressing and killing rapidly. However, columnaris usually also has severe skin ulcerations, so perhaps not. Either way, it sounds like between the septicemia and body fungus, the fish are in a rough way. Its a shame you're in the UK; Maracyn-2 is great for that kind of thing. Can you get methalyne blue? Some sites I've read said it can help with body fungus. Also, as suggested above, increased aeration and filtration helps with the threatment of body fungus. Salt would as well, but it sounds like there was a problem with the salt before, so maybe that would not be best.

Also, as far as the fish acting poorly after the water change, how did you do the water change? Did you let it sit to get to the proper temp? Did you add dechlor to the water before putting it in? Correct dose? What kind of dechlor do you use? Aquasafe dechlorinates almost immediately, for example, wheras Amquell needs to sit overnight. It sounds like they're just stressed from the change since they are sensitive and ill right now, but I just thought I'd cover some of those bases in case one of the prev. was the problem.

 

[black angel]

Might be treading old ground here but how long have the fish been in the five foot tank and was the filter new? How long in the tank before you added the extra fish. Are any of the new fish sick?

Filtration is really important to goldfish and the bigger the tank the more filtration needed, at least 10 times tank capacity. Personally the fluval 4+ isnt big enough to deal with all those fish. It may have been enough for the two you had but putting all those fish in at once would have sent the filter into overload as it wouldnt be able to keep up with the ammonia load.
The new fish as well would have brought in diseases that the original two couldnt cope with.
This isnt your fault as your pet store should have helped you out more rather than giving you meds and salt to cover the basic problem.
The fish take salt from the water and already have salt inside them so putting all that salt in at once would have sent the sickest goldie over the edge. Normally when added slowly over 12 hour intervals salt can and does act as a great killer of parasites and nitrite poisoning.
Skin falling away and leaving patches and the red dots sounds like a costia infection which is a parasite probably brought in with the new fish and really hard to fight. I'm afraid the sickest fish arent going to make it as they now have lots of other diseases taking hold such as the septiceamia. You have to limit the damage here by removing the sickest fish and keep on doing the water changes.
The stuff your partner brought isnt going to do anything im afraid as its for nitrate removal.
For the test kit the pet store had it sounds like the pharmaceutical ones that i have but ive never heard of the ones you have. Read off the nearest colour and then write down what you get for them. If ammonia isnt clear then you need to do more water changes to get it to 0. If that means twice a day then you will have to do twice a day.
You are now the filter as your fluval just cant cope with it all.
Once you get the ammonia to 0 and nitrite to 0 then you can start treating the fish with a med for costia if they are still alive.
Do any of the new fish show spots at all or is it just the old ones?
I'm still praying for you and your fish, good luck.

 

[billieollie]

Hi,
Firstly thank you to Random Wiktor for your apology, it is much appreciated.. Thank you.

I am now going to the fish shop to buy the strips and also to get the water tested. I will post the levels a bit later.

Jack Sparrow (oneof the new ones) he looks OK, no signs of anything on his body, but he too is now at the bottom behind the rock.
Velma (new one) looks ok, but again she is at the bottom.
Dotty (new one) no signs of anything on her skin, but at the bottom.
Tinkerbell (new one) looks like she is covered in fluffy and her skin seems to be hanging of in places. She was the one last night that was swim but not moving,with her mouth out of the water and her body pointing straight down.

As for Billie, he is still hanging on, he is not swiming or eating, the only way I can explain how he looks, is.....
he looks moth eaten, as though he is rotting away, I suppose he is. he has stopped standing on his head, I dont think he has the energy, he is just laying between the rock and the filter. ( I want to cry)

 

[xautomaticflowersx]

This is very sad billieollie... I sympathise with you . It definately sounds like Billie is on his way out... it's amazing that he's actually managed to survive this long in the state he's in. I know that you said you couldn't do it, but I would reconsider euthanising him. Despite what some might say, fish *can* feel pain. If you really can't face doing it yourself, ring up your fish store and ask if they'd do it for you if you were to bring him in and leave him with them.
Is it only Billie's fins that are eroded? (I'm sorry... I'm sure you've told us this a million times, but without reading back on all the messages I can't remember!)

 

[big mick]

I wouldnt trust the local fish store for euthanising the fish humainly, they would probably just flush it down the toilet which is the worst thing they could do but I agree that euthanising him might be best but I can totally understand you not wanting to or not being able to.

 

[woodie]

now Big MIck are you the Big mick i know of NOBS?

 

[big mick]

[/quote]now Big MIck are you the Big mick i know of NOBS?

I beg your pardon? LOL

 

[black angel]

 

[xautomaticflowersx]

Way to hijack a serious thread and make it a point of amusment woodie

 

[WILDER]

What nobs mean don't get it.

 

[big mick]

Whilst not wanting to hijack the topic I was somewhat curiouse of that myself Wilder.....I can only assume its a different Big Mick.....and also that I am infinatly bigger.

 

[billieollie]

Hi everyone,

I have been to the fish shop and bought another filter, a test kit, some pimafix (antifungal remedy). Since the other filter has been on, Jack Sparrow, Dotty and Velma have been swiming and what looks like playing in the bubbles. Tinkerbell now has cotton wool around her mouth (she didnt have it on her mouth this morning, what ever this cotton wool stuff is, it grows very quickly) and she is still at the bottom and not eating.
Billie is now completely upside down,(not head standing, as if he is laying on his back) he has now moved to behind the new filter...

The fish shop did offer to put billie and tinkerbell to sleep for me, but I didnt know if I could trust them to do it correctly, they are ordering me some coycalm, apparently this is better than the clove oil, but then again maybe he wants another sale!!

I have done a water test, here are the levels, they mean absolutley nothing to me, so maybe someone can explain in plain english what they mean and what levels I am aiming for.

Nitrite 0.3
Ammonia 0
Nitrate..could either be 10 or 20 not much difference between the two pink colours
PH 8.0

I did the water test once I put the new filter in. I have also added the pimafix (5 teaspoons) and the melafix ( reduced from 5 teaspoons to 2 teaspoons as posted advice)

Just before I go, who is big mick and has his nobs got the cotton wool stuff on aswell, and what are nobs, you know I only know plain english fish talk!!!!!

 

[WILDER]

Glad you got another filter as that one couldn't cope with all the fish, is it another fluval four, as i have two filters in my tank, the filter with the tank, plus a fluval 4, just squeeze some muck of the mature filter onto the new sponges to get it going.

Not the writer of this information below.
Columnaris (a.k.a. Mouth Fungus)



Symptoms:

An infected fish will have off-white to gray cotton-like patches on the head, fins, gills, body and particularly the mouth. In time, these areas will develop into open sores. Gill swelling may occur, gill filaments may stick together and excessive mucus may develop in the gill area. Rapid breathing can be seen. Fins may deteriorate to the point of leaving the fin rays bare. Muscles may be inflamed and capillaries may rupture. Fish, particularly livebearers, may exhibit "shimmying". Infection may be acute (killing an infected fish within hours), or chronic (lingering for several days before eventually killing the fish). As with most diseases, not all symptoms need be present.



Cause:

The bacterium Flexibacter columnaris.



Treatment:

Ensure that your water conditions (e.g., Ammonia, Nitrite, pH, Nitrate levels, and water temp.) are within their proper ranges. If not, perform a water change and/or treat the water accordingly. Recommended medications include: Furanace, Fungus Eliminator, Fungus Cure, Furacyn, Furan-2, Triple Sulfa, E.M. Tablets, Tetracycline, or Potassium Permanganate. Medicated foods are also recommended. Columnaris can be highly infectious and may quickly kill all aquarium inhabitants; therefore, early treatment is essential. All fish, including those not yet showing visible symptoms, as well as the aquarium they inhabit should be treated.