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[xautomaticflowersx]

I have (unfortunately) used Koi Calm before on many goldfish (not my own I hasten to add... this was at an aquatics store I did some work experience in for a couple of months) and it does put them to sleep quite quickly. It is usually used as an anaesthetic or mild sedative, but obviously with a high enough dose it will put the goldfish to sleep permanently. It smells horrible and I'm not sure what's in it, but it certainly does the job. I would think that it has a very similar effect on the goldfish's body as clove oil, but since it is designed for fish perhaps it *is* better - I'm not sure.
I think that you're making the right choice if you allow them to euthanise him with Koi Calm, or if you do it yourself. Whilst Billie is clinging on to life, he has no quality of life any more at all and he must be in considerable discomfort . I'm sorry it had to come to this and that nothing seemed to help him.
The water parameters you are aiming for are...
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: less than 50ppm

So it sounds as though your water quality is pretty good now, which is positive. Obviously it needs to be maintained at that sort of level by continued regular water changes.
Edit: Forgot to mention... how are the others doing with eating?

 

[billieollie]

Hi

Yes the filter is the fluval, the same as the other one. As the water levels seem to have improved should I still do the 50% water changes everday? Have just had a close look at them as I couldnt find tinkerbell, she is now head standing with billie behind the filter. I do not have anything with me to put them to sleep, is it bad/ painful if I just take them out of the water? Billie looks like he has now got black bits on his body, his tail has nearly gone and his fins just look like threads of wool. what should I do??

 

[WILDER]

Cut the water changes down with the new filter, not so much of a large water change, you can use vodka, it dosn't take long when they are really ill, though with goldfish you would have to use a fair amount as they are big fish, it won't be nice but he's suffering now, i let them die and watch them suffer in the beginning of fishkeeping, but now i don't it's not nice, but you no they are not going to make it, so it helps you do the evil deed.

 

[xautomaticflowersx]

Try reducing the water changes to 25% every other day and keep testing the water. If the levels start to rise at all just increase the amount of water you change - say 40% instead of 25%.
I don't know much about the vodka method, but I've heard people say that it is one of the more painful methods to use - though I'm not 100% certain on that. If I was going to euthanise any of them then I would personally wait until tomorrow when you can maybe get down to the local pharmacy or health shop, get some clove oil and do it that way. Here is some more information for you from a very good site... http/www.goldfishinfo.com/ailment1.htm#humane
I prefer the sound of the very last method described (the one in dark blue) as it doesn't use any unnatural substances.

 

[billieollie]

Thanks for the link, I just had a look at it, I think I will go for the clove oil, I will go first thing in the morning to buy some, but I am hopeing that billie and tinkerbell both go tonight without my help. Before I do the clove oil thing, are you all really sure that, this is it for billie and that there is no way that he will recover, I just want to be sure, before I have to do such a sad thing.

 

[WILDER]

Yes he won't make it, they never do when they head stand, plus he has many problems, i can definately say yes, sorry.

 

[billieollie]

Thank you, I will do what is needed tomorrow.

Thank you to everyone who has posted advice on how to help Billie and Ollie, You have all helped me and I have learnt so much.

 

[black angel]

Just to add that the nitrite spike is still dangerous to the fish so keep doing the smaller water changes as advised to get those to 0. Keep testing your water each day before you do a change as your new filter may also experience an ammonia spike, though a small one.
Really sorry about your fish but no theres no hope for the sickest fish that i can see and i agree with wilder that they are now suffering from columnaris.

 

[RandomWiktor]

I also agree with the Columnaris diagnosis. I have treated it sucessfully before, but it is so very hard, which explains why the fish are suffering so immensely and becoming ill so rapidly. You are doing the right thing euthanizing, even though it will be very, very difficult for you. I am sorry it has come to this.

It would be ideal if you could isolate the two sick ones so that nothing is spread, as columnaris is extremely contageous. However, if that is not possible, we shall have to hope for the best. After the two afflicted fish pass on, please do post if you see any signs of columnaris (white cottony fuzz, ulcerations, etc) on the other. If caught very early and treated aggressively, it is curable. It is unfortunate that you live in the UK, as the most sucessful treatment protocol I've encountered is feeding Jungle's anti-bacterial food in conjunction with Maracyn-2, aquarium salt, lowered water temp, increased aeration, and frequent water changes. Lets hope your dillegent work changing the water and buying/adding new filters/bubblers will be enough so that you don't have any more heartbreak - or expense - with these guys.

 

[billieollie]

I can put Billie and Tinkerbell in a different tank, but are the other fish not already infected? Some where before someone posted that by moving them caused more stress, I dont know how they can get more stressed!! I have added the pimafix, and given them some food, Billie had some to eat and had a good swim around, he looked a bit more alive than earlier tonight ..or am I just wishing?? but he really did look a bit better. Tinkerbell didnt eat anything and she seems to be just floating around, banging into the others and the rocks and bits. She has this cotton woolly stuff coming in and out of her mouth as she opens and closes her mouth. It looked like billie was trying to eat the cotton wool of her, was he? Can I not gently wipe it off? is there nothing I can do? h
Here are a couple of photos of Billie that I took earlier tonight, they are not very clear but I thought that I would post them to show other people what happens to beautiful fish when 1) you dont know what you are doing and 2) when you are given the wrong advice.

 

[black angel]

OO Eck that looks bad. he looks to me like his slime coat is being taken off either by the bad water you had or through parasites.
its really hard to see if they have columnaris as that involves white patches around the head and back and ulceration of the skin.
Keep doing those water changes and take the two sickest ones out and put them in a tank with temp matched dechlored water and make sure the ammonia and nitrites always read at 0. You will need a filter as well with them and extra air.
Once you get the water right on both tanks then we can have another look and see what treatment should be done.

 

[billieollie]

Hi.
Should I still change the water everyday 50%, some one posted to do 25% water changes every other day, do you agree. I have not done the water today. Do you think if I put billie and tinkerbell in the other tank, they will improve?? You mentioned white patches, they dont have any, they just have this cotton woolly stuff all over them. it looks like a second skin but fluffy.

Just had a close look at them, tinkerbell is laying on her side at the bottom, she seems to be swollen/bloated. what is happening to her. Is it cruel if I just take her out of the tank, I cant bare to look at her, she looks so bad.

 

[RandomWiktor]

Is the swelling causing the scales to raise slightly, like a pinecone? If so, she has probably gone into organ failure or a bacterial overload, and has Dropsy. I realize it is sad to think of stressing them out by moving them, but the longer they sit in that tank, the higher than chance of them potentially infecting your remaining fish with whatever they have. So, please do consider relocating both fish to another tank. If the female is indeed suffering from dropsy, please euthanize; I have dealt with it before and the fish are absolutely miserable. It is incurable, takes some time to kill them, and seems to be very painful/discomforting.

 

[black angel]

With the new filter you can cut back a bit and do 25% each day but keep an eye on the water tests. If they start to go up then increae the water changes.
As for tinkerbell then yes take her out and put her in the other tank. Once you get the water to 0 for both ammonia and nitrites then we will see about treatments.

 

[WILDER]

That pic broke my heart when i saw it, sorry, but that fish is suffering, and i can't stand to look at it, it suffering please do something about it, you can see it in it's eyes and body.