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[billieollie]

Hi,
I have been adding the melafix for about 8 days now, when I done the first 50% water change last thursday the man in the shop said to start the course again for another 7 days. I added half the packet of salt in one go on the same day that I done the first water change, was told to add the rest after 3 to 4 days, which works out to be today, should I add more salt? When I do the next water change (tonight) shall I used bottle water or tap?? shop said to use bottled as this would help to get rid of toxins quicker, but then someone posted that bottled water is bad for them. who do I listen to?
Was expecting to find billie dead this morning, but he is still hanging on, I gave them some food but he didnt come from behind the rock/filter to eat. tinkerbell looks more fluffy today and billie is still doing hand stands. Only one of them, Jack Sparrow is swiming around.
I am in the UK. Here are photos of bille head standing, the other photo is dottie (red/white) Jack sparrow (black/orange)and tinkerbell and billie in the back ground

 

[black angel]

They look really bad im afraid. I dont see much hope for the headstander myself. Can you get a 10 gallon tank or container to put him in?
Ok i'm not here to make money from you and i offer experience at seeing other fish on different forums and picking up stuff as i go along.
What i do know is that if you add any more salt you will kill your fish. Bottled water adds even more salt and other minerals such as magnesium. Look at the label on the bottle and it will tell you whats in it.
Now if these were my fish i would stop adding anything other than dechlor and get them in clean fresh water without melafix and salt.
Fish already have a high salt content in their bodies and adding too much over a long period of time will cause kidney damage which i think has happened to your headstander.
Please do 50% each day of clean fresh water.
Getting test kits as well is a great idea especially for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph. As ive said even the esha test strips will do at a push. It is vital you keep a track of how the water is doing.
Do you have a heater as well? I know that raising the temp to the low tropical region will boost immune systems to help fight any infections.
Its a shame you arent in America as a food would help as well. Its called medigold and contains antibiotics that help from the inside. Dont worry about them not eating for a few days, just concentrate on the water.

 

[xautomaticflowersx]

I second what black angel has said. The various medications are obviously not improving their situation and at this stage it may even be causing further stress. Keep doing partial water changes with dechlorinated tap water and test the water each day (jot down the results so you know where you're at).
It doesn't look too hopeful I'm afraid... the head standing fish definately appears to be on his last legs. Keep the water as clean as possible and see how things go . I'd be prepared for the worst though to be honest... these fish are extremely ill.
I never feel comfortable giving people advice on fish euthanasia, but since you asked there are a few methods that can be used. The best that I've heard is probably the following...
Place the particular fish in a bucket/container of tank water and add a few drops of clove oil to the water. You can get clove oil from pharmacies and health shops for tooth ache. Anyway, swirl the clove oil in gently until the fish floats to the top. Once you're sure the fish is unconscious you should cut the fish's head off to make sure it is dead.
This is not a method I have ever had to use, so others can feel free to discount it or comment on it or what have you. I just thought I'd put it out there in case it comes to it.

 

[billieollie]

Hi,
Billie has not moved from the corner and is still standing on his head, he has now gone all fluffyand has small white spots on him, the spots are only on his tail and his fins.As I look at the tank now, it looks empty they are all at the bottom. I am going to do a water change in a minute and only add the aquasafe. Thanks for the advice on putting billie to sleep, but dont think I could do that, so I am just going to try help him with the water. lots has been said about testing the water, have no idea how to do this and what levels are correct.
I do not have a water heater, will it help if I leave the lights on in the tank as this seems to warm up the water a bit??

 

[WILDER]

I'm afraid the fish isn't going to make it, he has to many deseases mounting up, if you do put him down, the water quality should be a bit better as one less fish waste in the tank, i no it dosn't sound nice, but you have to think of trying to save the other fish that stand a chance, rather then wasting your effort on a fish that is very ill and won't recover, sorry.

 

[black angel]

Only leave the lights on through the day. Just keep doing water changes and adding dchlorinator for now. Rinse your filter out in used tank water as well and squeeze all the crap out of it.
For testing water using an ammonia test kit, you get a small vial that has a water mark level to which you add 8 drops of the tester then gently shake and read from the card. This should be clear which means 0.
The test strips are easy to do. Dip one in for a second then wait a minute before reading off the tube.
The top one is nitrates which can read from 50 down to be in the safe zone. The next is nitrites and should be clear which is reading 0.The next bloke is your GH which should be at 7. The next one are the kh values and 6 to 10 is acceptable.
The bottom line is your ph level and you want a reading of around 7.2 to 8.0 but as long as its a stable reading then its ok.

So basically for the important numbers you are looking at ammonia 0, nitrites 0 and nitrates below 50. Ph isnt too important just now but worth knowing as is your gh and kh levels.

It really is worth investing in them.

 

[RandomWiktor]

Here is the method of euthanasia I use. It is quick, painless, and guarentees death, without too much scary, messy stuff for you to deal with. Sorry to hear the fish are doing so poorly. It sounds liek the kindest thing would be euthanasia if he is that bad of condition. Can you see clear gill movement? The "going fuzzy" thing sounds disturbingly similar to shedding the slime coat after death. Can you confirm that he is still alive? (Don't laugh; some fish really don't look dead when they are)

If you think it would be kindest to euthanize him, I have a suggestion for a very peaceful way out. I used it when my Goldfish, Bronwin, needed to be put down. He had a jaw deformity and was starving because he couldn't open his mouth. Developed dropsy, and was in a lot of pain.

I don't know what size tank your fellow is on, or if other fish are in with him, so I'll just suggest this:
- Gently scoop your fish up into a fairly small container filled half way with water from the tank.
- Get a bottle of clove oil - the kind for analgesia/dental numbing, not the scented oil. I've heard varying bits of info on the dosage, but the bottle is usually small, so I've always used the whole thing to make sure the animal is truly dead.
- Scoop up enough tank water in a separate container to fill the rest of the one your goldfish is in. Place the clove oil into this container and shake very thoroughly so that the oil is thoroughly dispersed throughout the water.
- Pour the water with added clove oil into the container your fish is in. You should see an almost-immediate cessation of movement, and not long after, the gills should stop.
- Leave the fish in this container until you are sure it is dead. Most people will freeze the fish once it is unconcious, but I've found that if you leave them in, you'll be able to tell in a few hours that they are definately dead; the eyes will go pale and glazed, the color will leave, and the slime coat will shed. If you've seen a dead fish, you'll know what to look for.
- If you'd like to be doubly sure, freeze or destroy the brain after the fish has been in the clove oil for several hours. It shouldn't be necesarry, but some people like to do it on the off chance that the animal was only very convincingly anesthatized. But as I said above, if you just look for the signs of death, it shouldn't be needed.

Clove oil has natural anesthetic and analgesic effects on fish; they use chemicals from it when performing fish surgeries. It is not a painful death, and if you use enough and shake thoroughly before pouring it in, you won't need to use the vodka method, which sounds painful to me. It is probably the kindest way to say goodbye to your little fishie.

That aside? Just keep on truckin' with the water changes. Perhaps add more air stones and stronger filtration if you hadn't allready. Let the water you're using for the H2O changes sit overnight in empty water jugs to help keep the temp more stable and to further reduce chlorine in the water in addition to the dechlor.
Removed; offensive.

edit: Here is a very helpful website with tons of into on goldfish care. Hopefully if the remaining fish pull through, you will find useful info for their future care on here.

 

[billieollie]

Hi,
Cant do the putting to sleep thing...so am going to keep trying with the water changes, but thank you for the advice. my other half has just bought home some Nitrex, should I use this??? I have also done a kind of water test, but dont really understand, so maybe you will... nitrate said 0 on the card and the water in the file was light yellow. Ammonia..said 0 on the card and the water was clear. high range ph indicator 7.8 on the card and the colour looks like diluted blood. freshwater ph 7.6 and the water is a sky blue colour. I used the water in the tank before 50%water change to do the tests. I hope one of you out there can make head or tail of these numbers as I have absolutley no idea what I have just written!!! In the shop the man does a test and the water goes pink, he uses 2 products, what are they??
I have borrowed this test kit from my friends son,( he is in Australia, otherwise I would ask him to do it) the test kit does not have the instructions in and the bottles only say how many drops to add. This is a list of the bottles in the kit..High range ph indicator solution (add 5 drops) Ammonia solution (add 8 drops) ph indicator solution (3 drops) there are 3 bottles of nitrate solution, 2 of them say add 10 drops and the other one says add 5 drops

p.s Billie is still breathing.

HELP!!

 

[WILDER]

Ammonia 0 is good if it is that, can't understand why you don't have a nitrate reading as would expect one with goldfish, two liquid bottles sounds like the test for nitrite, which we do need that reading as it's important.

 

[RandomWiktor]

I'm a little puzzled by if you're asking us what the values on the test mean, or what the values on the reference sheet means. Basically, if you are using a test strip, you pretty much want the values on the strip to match up with the values on the reference sheet. For example, lets say the little test pad on the strip for ammonia should be white, but when you test, the pad comes out pink. That suggests high ammonia, and water changes must be performed until the color on the pad is also white. In short, you want your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate to come out as close as possible to the color on the reference sheet. Other values like pH have more leeway, though from what I've read, goldfish like slightly basic water (7.0-8.0). I wouldn't play around too much with pH though; if the fish have been ok for two years in it, it shouldn't be anything bad.

I'm unfamiliar with the med you are suggesting. However, if medication and salt both failed the fish, I would suspect it wouldn't help, and the best remedy is daily water changes to keep the ammonia down.

What kind of aeration/filtration do you have? I've found increased aeration really helps sickly fish. Many aquatic bacteria are anaerobic and dislike strong currents. By upping filtration and adding a heavy-duty airstone, you can help to discourage the bacteria growing due to the high waste levels.

 

[WILDER]

Is this what you have bought.
1263 NITREX 200G

A synthetic polymer material with a very high surface area and a built in slow release carbon source. This makes it ideal as a Nitrate removal media in an anaerobic Nitrate filter. Can be used in a purpose built Nitrex box for Nitrate removal in Marine and Freshwater system.

 

[billieollie]

The tests are not on strips, I have put some of the water in files added the solutions and then looked at the cards and matched the colour of the water to the colours on the cards. The filter is fluval 4plus, it has two settings one just makes the water move or you can have bubbles, I have bubbles coming out of it.I sound so blonde, ask me anything about horses or dogs, but with fish I have no idea. Should I use the nitrex stuff my other half just bought??

Just finished the water change, it looks like billie's skin is falling off, he just sat in my hand, he had a little swim, but he seems to be falling to one side, it looks as though he is swiming close to the side of the tank to keep himself upright. he has now returned back to his place by the side of the filter.

The nitrex just says nitres on the box, it looks like little black stones. it says that it is a biological filter medium for freshwater and saltwater aquariums.

 

[WILDER]

Is that the only filter in the tank, if so you could do with another fluval 4 as no way is that filter good enough for all the goldfish in the tank.

 

[RandomWiktor]

I would add a bubbler. Those filter bubblers don't work worth a hoot; my goldfish used to have one, and nearly died just from poor water oxygenation once the temp went up. I found this huge 2 ft bubbler strip that fit along the back edge of the aquarium with suction cups. It puts out a whole ton of bubbles, and the goldfish instantly perked up. Its probably a better investment than all the salt and meds in the world.

 

[billieollie]

Something is happening to Tinkerbell ( the one that looks like she has cotton wool all over her) for about the last hour she has stayed at the top of the tank in the same position.. it looks like she has her mouth out of the water trying to get air. her body is pointing downwards,she is moving her tail quite fast but is not going anywhere, and her breathing is very fast. she was OK earlier tonight. I just put my hand in as I thought she was floating and she moved out of the way and then straight back to the same position. Jack Sparrow, has in the last 10mnutes started to do the same, but he has not got the cotton wool skin. Does anyone know what is happening They were not doing this before I changed the water.