Help With New Fishless Cycle 10G Tank.

[bsud]

It has been six days since I started my fishless cycle on my 10g tank. when started I added pure ammonia and got it to 4ppm. also I added TSS just to kick start it. Now six days later this is what. I have ammonia still 4ppm, nitrite 0, and pH. 7.6. Have I done anything wrong or how long does it take for ammonia too drop and nitrites to show up?

 

[Ninjouzata]

My first fishless cycle (which I messed up a few things on) it took 21 days for ammonia to start dropping. Be patient Are you following THIS?
Not sure if someone more experienced on cycling would advise to drop it to 3 ppm or let it be right now.

 

[bsud]

I followed this other than my ammonia went to 4ppm instead of three. I had thought about doing a water change to drop it but not sure. That's why I asked here hoping someone would would advise me as what to do.

 

[Ninjouzata]

I just wanted to hopefully ease your mind a little on the time frame until someone who knows more sees this. Definitely good to post and ask questions, people here are happy to help

 

[bsud]

Thanks! I love this forum, lots of helpful advice here!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The single most important thing when using bacterial additives is the follow the manufacturers directions to the letter. For example, the cycling directions here use an ammonia dose of 3 ppm. But if one wants to use DrTim's One and Only, then you are directed to use 2 ppm. Those directions trump those in the article. Here are some quotes from Tetra regarding the use of their product:
 

Hi there,

So...where to begin? First, ideally you should set up the tank, and let it run at least 24 hours, then, shortly before you head off to the store for your first fish, add TSS to the tank. Within two hours, you should add the fish. Our normal recommendation is to add one small fish per ten gallons of water. However, you CAN fully stock the tank, you just need to keep a close eye on it, and be sure to not complicate matters by overfeeding as well. We recommend this method for African cichlid tanks since it is best to fully stock such a tank from the beginning due to territorial issues. For a novice fish-keeper, we'd  recommend the one small fish per ten gallons rule for the first two weeks. Within two weeks, TSS should have fully cycled the tank and they can start slowly adding more fish, one at a time.

In regards to ammonia products, yes, they kill TSS. Any type, whether a chloramines remover or detoxifier, etc, anything that says it locks up ammonia or removes ammonia. Do not add TSS for 24 hours after using such a product, and do not add such a product for at least 7 days after using TSS. {Prime does this.}The bacteria is housed in a special stabilized solution of ammonia, so if you remove/lock up the ammonia, you remove all of the food the bacteria require to live.

If you already have fish, and are having an ammonia issue, it is best to get the ammonia levels down to below 4.0. 4.0 and higher is just as toxic to TSS as it is to fish. While 2.0 -3.5 ppm ammonia may harm some of the TSS bacteria, it should still have some effect. You may want to do a second dose several days after adding the first one, if you are not seeing the results you want. Keep in mind, these are bacteria, not a chemical, so results are slow to see. Give the product at least 5-7 days.

Best temperature for TSS is between 40 and 80 degrees. Freezing and extreme heat will destroy it. Refrigeration is okay, but not necessary. {This is in terms of storing not cycling.}

You can test the water any time, but really, you should probably wait at least 48 hours. We expect TSS to start slowly seeding the tank, and making a difference in about that time. You have to have some ammonia occur in the tank to provide the cycle needed, so it will usually create levels or reduce levels to around 1.0-1.5 ppm, and they should stay there for a week to 14 days, and then come down. Sorry, these levels would be for both ammonia and nitrite. These are considered stress, but not toxic, levels, and should not cause any long term damage to the fish.

We recommend waiting two weeks before a water change. Of course, if for some reason, the levels go up to a high level again, we would recommend a change at that point, and another dose. Usually, the hobbyist has done something wrong the first time, in such cases.

Nope, bacteria should not affect the pH.

Hmmm....be sure the levels are not already toxic, shake the container thoroughly, be sure to add the right dosage, do not use an ammonia detoxifying product, and be patient. It won't give you zero readings in an hour, like some folks think. By the way, carbon does not affect it but uv lights do...we get those questions too.

And just an interesting point...the large aquariums, such as the Georgia Aquarium, and the Shedd Aquarium, as well as huge research labs in this country and other countries, also use TSS as well as the saltwater version Bio Spira.

If I have not addressed all of your questions, please let me know.

Regards,

Tetra Care
 

from http/www.fishlore.com/fishforum/aquarium-nitrogen-cycle/58116-q-tetra-tetra-safestart.html
 
I added the red to the above for emphasis and the blue color text inside the {  } are not part of the original but were added by me for clarification.
 

 

[bsud]

The single most important thing when using bacterial additives is the follow the manufacturers directions to the letter. For example, the cycling directions here use an ammonia dose of 3 ppm. But if one wants to use DrTim's One and Only, then you are directed to use 2 ppm. Those directions trump those in the article. Here are some quotes from Tetra regarding the use of their product:
 

Hi there,
So...where to begin? First, ideally you should set up the tank, and let it run at least 24 hours, then, shortly before you head off to the store for your first fish, add TSS to the tank. Within two hours, you should add the fish. Our normal recommendation is to add one small fish per ten gallons of water. However, you CAN fully stock the tank, you just need to keep a close eye on it, and be sure to not complicate matters by overfeeding as well. We recommend this method for African cichlid tanks since it is best to fully stock such a tank from the beginning due to territorial issues. For a novice fish-keeper, we'd  recommend the one small fish per ten gallons rule for the first two weeks. Within two weeks, TSS should have fully cycled the tank and they can start slowly adding more fish, one at a time.In regards to ammonia products, yes, they kill TSS. Any type, whether a chloramines remover or detoxifier, etc, anything that says it locks up ammonia or removes ammonia. Do not add TSS for 24 hours after using such a product, and do not add such a product for at least 7 days after using TSS. {Prime does this.}The bacteria is housed in a special stabilized solution of ammonia, so if you remove/lock up the ammonia, you remove all of the food the bacteria require to live.
If you already have fish, and are having an ammonia issue, it is best to get the ammonia levels down to below 4.0. 4.0 and higher is just as toxic to TSS as it is to fish. While 2.0 -3.5 ppm ammonia may harm some of the TSS bacteria, it should still have some effect. You may want to do a second dose several days after adding the first one, if you are not seeing the results you want. Keep in mind, these are bacteria, not a chemical, so results are slow to see. Give the product at least 5-7 days.
Best temperature for TSS is between 40 and 80 degrees. Freezing and extreme heat will destroy it. Refrigeration is okay, but not necessary. {This is in terms of storing not cycling.}
You can test the water any time, but really, you should probably wait at least 48 hours. We expect TSS to start slowly seeding the tank, and making a difference in about that time. You have to have some ammonia occur in the tank to provide the cycle needed, so it will usually create levels or reduce levels to around 1.0-1.5 ppm, and they should stay there for a week to 14 days, and then come down. Sorry, these levels would be for both ammonia and nitrite. These are considered stress, but not toxic, levels, and should not cause any long term damage to the fish.We recommend waiting two weeks before a water change. Of course, if for some reason, the levels go up to a high level again, we would recommend a change at that point, and another dose. Usually, the hobbyist has done something wrong the first time, in such cases.
Nope, bacteria should not affect the pH.
Hmmm....be sure the levels are not already toxic, shake the container thoroughly, be sure to add the right dosage, do not use an ammonia detoxifying product, and be patient. It won't give you zero readings in an hour, like some folks think. By the way, carbon does not affect it but uv lights do...we get those questions too. And just an interesting point...the large aquariums, such as the Georgia Aquarium, and the Shedd Aquarium, as well as huge research labs in this country and other countries, also use TSS as well as the saltwater version Bio Spira.
If I have not addressed all of your questions, please let me know.
Regards,
Tetra Care

from http/www.fishlore.com/fishforum/aquarium-nitrogen-cycle/58116-q-tetra-tetra-safestart.html
 
I added the red to the above for emphasis and the blue color text inside the {  } are not part of the original but were added by me for clarification.

My tank did run 24 hrs before the TSS was a added but I didn't wait 7 days before adding ammonia, I actually added ammonia first then added tss couple hrs after but only all this after 24 hr tank run. Do you recommend me do a water change to lower ammonia to 3ppm?

 

[bsud]

OK now I am confused, I just checked the nitrate and I'm reading 20ppm. I can't imagine it skipping the nitrites with only a cycle time of 6 days. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Ninjouzata]

You might have some in your tap water. Have you tested that?

 

[bsud]

I haven't tested that but I will

 

[bsud]

You might have some in your tap water. Have you tested that?

Just tested my tap water for nitrates and it was a as yellow as could be so 0ppm of. nitrates in tap water.

 

[bsud]

Test this morning no change

ammo-4ppm
nitrite-0ppm
nitrate-20ppm

I'm still wondering should I do a PWC to lower ammonia down to around 2ppm or just let it sit until they drop? Thoughts?

 

[bsud]

OK so I went ahead and and done a. 25% water change, then tested few hrs later, the only thing that changed was the nitrates so I now have after 25% PWC..

ammonia-still 4ppm
nitrite-still 0ppm
nitrates-dropped from 20ppm to now 5ppm

I'm wondering since I used safe start if I should just do a 90-95% PWC and start over before I get to far with nothing happening?

 

[Ninjouzata]

I wonder if you'd get more help if this was in the cycling section. If you think so and want it moved PM a mod. 

 

[bsud]

Thanks PM sent