Help Reading This Ph And Loss Of Fish After Water Changes

[Mark Z.]

Cool!

 

[thrujenseyes]

Ok, so the water people just left.
 
The "blue bullet" is the well water treatment tank which usually has "booster and clorine" added.
I asked about the booster and he told me it's always a form of calcium such as crushed coral (nothing harmful).  
And chlorine tablets which apparently go away after about an hour.  
 
So today (since it was years overdue) they couldn't just add things to the tank.  It had to be dumped and replaced.  So everything in it is new.  
They added 150lbs of crushed coral and some chlorine tablets that I had to run the water for 10 minutes to make sure it didn't smell like chlorine after that time (which it didn't) and he said it will all be gone in about an hour.
 
There is a way to bypass the bullet by turning two large valves (which I never did and apparently should have been when watering the garden and such...oops).
He didn't think I should bypass it to do water changes as he said there is nothing harmful in the bullet.
 
I asked him about the weird ph readings (going from 6 to 7.8 in one day) and he didn't find that strange as he explained to me about getting water first thing in the morning when it had been sitting on top in the tank all night and then getting water later the next day after it has been running thru the bullet all day.  He talked super fast and I didn't really understand but it all seemed to make sense as he was yammering on.
 
When all was said and done my water PH is reading 7.0 and the hardness is a 4.
He said GPG (grains per gallon) is a 4 which is Medium hardness.
does that make sense?  ....because I still don't really understand the hardness and such.  It took me long enough to understand PH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.
 
So...my bullet was pretty much depleted and probably not doing much in the way of helping or hurting my well water.
Could have been something in the well water itself?  Or it really could have been me overdosing the Flourish Excel (which I've stopped using all together).  
 
I will slowly start to add my treated well water into the remaining RO water I bought for water changes as not to shock anything.  I will always test PH before adding water as the other culprit could have been PH shock.
And I will try to be more natural in treatments by only using what I must to correct a situation instead of using them to enhance (how I thought excel was giving me glorious plants....which it totally did but possibly at the expense of my poor fish).
 
I'm learning

 

[StevenF]

The crushed coral will  react with the chlorine to form Calcium chloride(a comon flant fertilizer that is safe).  This locks up and nutralizes the chlorine.  I would get some sort of chlorine test kit The Tetra 6 in 1 test strips do test for chlorine.   Use that to monitor your water.  If you detect chlorine you still should treat the  water with a conditioner to remove the residual chlorine.  If over a month you don't see any chlorine you can gradually reduce the conditioner used and work your way down to zero.  
 

 
 
When all was said and done my water PH is reading 7.0 and the hardness is a 4.

That is perfect.  There shouldn't be a need to continue using RO water.

 

[Byron]

The GH at 4 gpg (grains per gallon) converts to 68 ppm (parts per million) which is more commonly used in the hobby.  This converts to 3.7 dGH.  I would call this soft water, not medium hard.
 
On the chlorine...be careful.  Chlorine burns fish gills.  Now, you can briskly agitate the water, or let it sit 24 hours.  Chlorine dissipates out of water fairly easily (which is why so many municipal water authorities are using chloramine).  If there is a chance of chlorine, I would probably use a dechlorinator to be safe.  The API Tap Water Conditioner is one of the best, and you use very little.  This might also be sensible, given the past problems.  Something in the water killed fish quickly, and I cannot see anything here that explains this yet.  As for his comment that nothing in the bullet can harm fish...his knowledge of fish may be very minimal.  For example, copper levels in water is regulated by law for human safety, but the amount allowed will easily kill fish.  Fish have a very different physiology compared to humans, and other animals.
 
The pH fluctuation is a bit baffling, as he explained it.  I would test it before adding that water to the tank with fish present.

 

[Mark Z.]

  ....because I still don't really understand the hardness and such.  It took me long enough to understand PH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.
 
I'm learning

 
 
...I'm with you with that!
 
Sounds like you are on the right path!
 
Good luck!
Mark

 

[StevenF]

 
 
Something in the water killed fish quickly, and I cannot see anything here that explains this yet.

Under ground water does frequently have high levels of CO2 and in some.  High CO2 levels allone can explain this.  If the Ph from the tap was 5 or so that would be hard on the fish and they may have a hard time taking in enough oxygen.   Acidic water is also probably very low in KH which would explain why her PH stayed low after a water change. and that also can be bad for fish.   The 150 lbs of crushed coral added to the treatment system can easily rectify low bh and Kh levels.  And the fact that the water is now medium hard after treatment indicates the well water is probably soft and probably overall low in mineral content.
 
.  

 

[thrujenseyes]

A tad bit off topic:
I hadn't lost a fish in weeks (nor had I done a water change).
I did a water change Saturday (about 30%) with mostly RO that had the correct amount of flourish comprehensive added for the minerals lacking.  I had mixed this with a small amount of tap water that I'd treated and tested a week or so ago.  So it had been treated and sitting for over a week.
The fish and tank were great rest of day and sunday..  and all day today until dinner I noticed my Amano shrimp take off across the tank holding an endler which I swore was still alive.  I grabbed a long tweezer and went after him to scare it loose.  I lost the fish completely and the shrimp ran off.  
I watched and watched until I saw the shrimp reappear with the endler which was definitely dead now.  He was prying it's poor little eyes out and having the time of his life.
 
Now...I know Amano shrimps don't kill fish.  BUT I've heard that there is a shrimp that looks an awful lot like an amano but with longer arms.  Mine is definitely an Amano  BUT the last three fish deaths have been super sudden and the reason I noticed the deaths was because my Amano was eating them.  There is no way he's catching them .....right?!??!  This fish looked great this morning.  And the shrimp is super stoked to have this morsel.  If another fish swims by he will take off with his prize and hide and eat it somewhere else.  He is quite a bit larger than my endlers have been....
 
Also regarding the bullet and all the well water questions...I'm still wrapping my brain around all of that and will take in everything that has been mentioned.  
 
I'm heading to bed feeling quite defeated.

 

[StevenF]

 
 
Now...I know Amano shrimps don't kill fish.  BUT I've heard that there is a shrimp that looks an awful lot like an amano but with longer arms.  Mine is definitely an Amano  

I have read of a carnivorous shrimp that looks like ghost shrimp. However I haven't heard of that in regards to amano.  However due to the difficulty in breading amano shrimp, most are wild caught. So I suppose it is possible.  The other possibility is that the fish was dying already when you saw the shrimp grasping it. Your fish have been through a lot with the low PH water so we cannot say if the earlier acidic water killed  him or the shrimp killed him.
 
how long have you had this shrimp and did you loose any fish prior to getting the shrimp? Also how many fish have you lost at one time?   if you have only one shrimp then I would assume that he can only eat one at a time and i would expect only one fish at a time would die.  However if you lost several all at once it is not likely the shrimp.

 

[marnold00]

 
 Now...I know Amano shrimps don't kill fish.  BUT I've heard that there is a shrimp that looks an awful lot like an amano but with longer arms.  Mine is definitely an Amano  

I have read of a carnivorous shrimp that looks like ghost shrimp. However I haven't heard of that in regards to amano.  However due to the difficulty in breading amano shrimp, most are wild caught. So I suppose it is possible.  The other possibility is that the fish was dying already when you saw the shrimp grasping it. Your fish have been through a lot with the low PH water so we cannot say if the earlier acidic water killed  him or the shrimp killed him.
 
how long have you had this shrimp and did you loose any fish prior to getting the shrimp? Also how many fish have you lost at one time?   if you have only one shrimp then I would assume that he can only eat one at a time and i would expect only one fish at a time would die.  However if you lost several all at once it is not likely the shrimp.

Ive read that you need to be careful of bamboo shrimp when buying amano shrimp. Bamboo shrimp will apparently eat small fish

 

[thrujenseyes]

 

 
 
Now...I know Amano shrimps don't kill fish.  BUT I've heard that there is a shrimp that looks an awful lot like an amano but with longer arms.  Mine is definitely an Amano  

I have read of a carnivorous shrimp that looks like ghost shrimp. However I haven't heard of that in regards to amano.  However due to the difficulty in breading amano shrimp, most are wild caught. So I suppose it is possible.  The other possibility is that the fish was dying already when you saw the shrimp grasping it.
Your fish have been through a lot with the low PH water so we cannot say if the earlier acidic water killed  him or the shrimp killed him.
 
True, they have been thru a lot but for two full weeks they've looked and acted like totally different fish.   So happy and active, zero signs of stress but I suppose it could have been weakened by the prior stress and just conked out.
 
 
how long have you had this shrimp and did you loose any fish prior to getting the shrimp? Also how many fish have you lost at one time?   if you have only one shrimp then I would assume that he can only eat one at a time and i would expect only one fish at a time would die.  However if you lost several all at once it is not likely the shrimp.
 
I've had him for close to a year and honestly that's about when I started noticing weird deaths BUT it's also close to my purchasing the Flourish Excel (which I'm sure I was over dosing).  The whole I'm losing fish after water changes are still front and center but this little shrimp has me questioning things the way he's so protective and overjoyed when he has a fish in his grasp (and that the last three deaths have all been in his hands...literally).
 
And I've only lost one at a time.  Two were close together but I believe about a day apart.
 
 
 

 

 

 
 Now...I know Amano shrimps don't kill fish.  BUT I've heard that there is a shrimp that looks an awful lot like an amano but with longer arms.  Mine is definitely an Amano  

I have read of a carnivorous shrimp that looks like ghost shrimp. However I haven't heard of that in regards to amano.  However due to the difficulty in breading amano shrimp, most are wild caught. So I suppose it is possible.  The other possibility is that the fish was dying already when you saw the shrimp grasping it. Your fish have been through a lot with the low PH water so we cannot say if the earlier acidic water killed  him or the shrimp killed him.
 
how long have you had this shrimp and did you loose any fish prior to getting the shrimp? Also how many fish have you lost at one time?   if you have only one shrimp then I would assume that he can only eat one at a time and i would expect only one fish at a time would die.  However if you lost several all at once it is not likely the shrimp.

Ive read that you need to be careful of bamboo shrimp when buying amano shrimp. Bamboo shrimp will apparently eat small fish
 


Oh yes I believe that's the one I read about as well but they apparently have long front arms and mine does not.  Mine is very clearly an amano and he does eat algae and such....but man is he carnivorous.  I took a video...I'll upload it later.  It's like a horror show.  ha

 

[Essjay]

 
Ive read that you need to be careful of bamboo shrimp when buying amano shrimp. Bamboo shrimp will apparently eat small fish

 
Bamboo shrimps are filter feeders and the reason for not buying them is that they can starve to death in an aquarium.
 
The shrimps that eat small fish are long-arm shrimps, usually of the genus Macrobrachium. Juveniles look like ghost shrimps and people find themselves with a ghost shrimp that suddenly grows long arms and starts eating their fish.

 

[thrujenseyes]

 

 
Ive read that you need to be careful of bamboo shrimp when buying amano shrimp. Bamboo shrimp will apparently eat small fish

 
Bamboo shrimps are filter feeders and the reason for not buying them is that they can starve to death in an aquarium.
 
The shrimps that eat small fish are long-arm shrimps, usually of the genus Macrobrachium. Juveniles look like ghost shrimps and people find themselves with a ghost shrimp that suddenly grows long arms and starts eating their fish.
 

Mine is definitely an Amano.  But I have read what you mentioned

 

[Mark Z.]

It's kind of interesting that I don't think I've ever really SEEN one of my fish die, even after years and years of having fish. I just find them later.

I remember looking in my tank last year and seeing my hecklii with a otocinclus in his mouth and I wondered if he killed him or if it died and he picked him up.
 
Maybe you should invest in some infra-red security cameras for that shrimp.

 

[thrujenseyes]

It's kind of interesting that I don't think I've ever really SEEN one of my fish die, even after years and years of having fish. I just find them later.

I remember looking in my tank last year and seeing my hecklii with a otocinclus in his mouth and I wondered if he killed him or if it died and he picked him up.
 
Maybe you should invest in some infra-red security cameras for that shrimp.

ha...I'm totally considering it!  He has me questioning everything I've ever read about amano shrimps...and just nature in general!  

 

[Mark Z.]

Hey Jen...
 
Check out this link....the sixth entry down...
 
http/www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/do-amano-shrimp-attack-fish.28850/
 
The guy talks about how his amano shrimp attacks his fish AFTER a water change because the fish were shocked. Wonder if this is what happened in your tank??
 
Mark