Help Me! My Fish Are On Their Last Fins!

[Tasha89]

Hey!

First of all, like many others have said, this forum and the people here are soooooooo helpful!

So, my question is...

How do I lower my nitrite levels pronto?!

I have a 45L-50L tank, been running for about a month now.

I waited just over a week before adding any fish and everything was fine.

I went to my local pet store on Sat and bough 4 clown loaches and a betta/beta?! I introduced them into my tank and they were absolutely fine...or so I thought! I came home on Sun morning to find ALL 4 of my loaches had perrished!

I took the 4 bodies back to the store and they suggested doing a water test. As i'm new to this I never even though of testing the water before! (I'm a disgrace I know!!)

They gave me a test kit as a refund for the loaches (how kind!) got the following readings...

PH 8.0
Ammonia 0.1
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate 10mg

Whoops...!

If I hadn't have put those new fish in i'd have never noticed, but now all my other fish are having difficulty breathing and a few are developing a red darkening at their gills. Also the water is quite cloudy.

I was advised by the store to add a Green-X phosphate remover which would remove the nitrite as well. I've done a 15% water change yesterday as well to dilute the nitrite. The cloudy water has cleared up tremendously but the nitrite reading is exactly the same!! I intend to do another water change tonight. Maybe 25% at least? I've also added an extra filter (only a small 20L one i've had for a while) as it sprays air in the tank as well as filtering the water in the event that it might aid their breathing. I still have my other filter whirring away as normal.

My betta is still in my tank but looking a bit on the bad side. I also have

6 danios
4 neons
1 plec
3 live plants as well

Over the past 4-5 days i've lost

1 neon
3 platy's one was pregnant as well
4 clown loaches

I would appreciate any help at all!

Thanks,

Natasha

 

[Corleone]

Water changes - 50% now, and another 50% after a couple hours if levels are still above .25 for ammonia or nitrite. After that, test daily and do water changes as necessary to keep both under that level. Sounds like you're at the tail end of a fish-in cycle (leaving the tank for a week doesn't do anything to stabilize the tank, only a cycle involving an ammonia source, in your case fish, does that). The timeframe from setting up the tank is about right, and that would explain all the problems you've been having, and the water stats. Most likely daily water 20-30% water changes will be enough at this point once you get the current levels down, but adjust as necessary to keep both levels low, and keep monitoring until they both settle at 0.

What species of plec, do you know? The most commonly sold ones get far too big for the tank - the clown loaches would have needed a tank around 4-5 times this size, common and sailfin plecs can get bigger than them yet. A big fish will contribute to water quality troubles considerably.

 

[Tasha89]

Water changes - 50% now, and another 50% after a couple hours if levels are still above .25 for ammonia or nitrite. After that, test daily and do water changes as necessary to keep both under that level. Sounds like you're at the tail end of a fish-in cycle (leaving the tank for a week doesn't do anything to stabilize the tank, only a cycle involving an ammonia source, in your case fish, does that). The timeframe from setting up the tank is about right, and that would explain all the problems you've been having, and the water stats. Most likely daily water 20-30% water changes will be enough at this point once you get the current levels down, but adjust as necessary to keep both levels low, and keep monitoring until they both settle at 0.

What species of plec, do you know? The most commonly sold ones get far too big for the tank - the clown loaches would have needed a tank around 4-5 times this size, common and sailfin plecs can get bigger than them yet. A big fish will contribute to water quality troubles considerably.

I'm gonna do my 50% water change after posting this then I'll do the other before I go to bed. What do I do about feeding them? None of them are eating. It's awful! I feel so helpless!

Doesn't matter about the plec anymore...just got home from work and he was upside down at the bottom of the tank, as well as one of the neons. However, one of my danios was floating at the top but still breathing. I kept an eye on him for about an hour but he's unfortunately perrished as well.

I regards to the plec, he was only about 2"-3" but the pet shop said it could grow up to 48cm! Was advised that he'd outgrow my tank in a year so decided that he'd be good to keep on top of algae for now. My friend has a massive tank so she said she'd take him once he'd grown. As for the loaches, they were only tiny (bout 1"-2" max) but thanks for the info, bloody pets at home are useless!!! lol! I won't replace them then!!

Thanks again.

Natasha

 

[Davo86]

Hi Natasha

Don't worry about feeding, fish can go for days at a time without food,

As your tank is only 50Litres (13USG) then it is best to stick to only 13 inches worth of fish (fully grown fish size) for the first 6 months or so.

At this moment in time it appears your tank is cycling and so the levels will need to be monitored very carefully as they will be constantly changing, especially as you already have over 13 inches of fish in the tank.

 

[Corleone]

bloody pets at home are useless!!! lol! I won't replace them then!

This is always one of the harder lessons to learn with fish - took me a few mistakes to learn it, and some people are delivered right into disaster at their hands.

It obviously seems logical to ask the pet store about pets, but consider what a car salesman tells you when you ask about cars. The worse cases (Pets at Home isn't in my country, but from your own and other people's reports, sounds like it leans towards that end) give management-approved answers that primarily benefit the bottom line, not you or your pets. It's not just fish, but all pets - even cats and dogs - fall victim to some extent. Even the best stores still often suffer from out of date information or simply a lack of accurate knowledge.

Ultimately, the hobby itself (this site, for example) is the best place to get your information. We have no financial stake in anything, our priorities are your fish and your enjoyment of them.

Read around the site - particularly the stickies (Find posts by Miss Wiggle and read whatever she has packed into her sig currently), browse the species index. Next time you go to the pet store, you can act like a seasoned vet and call the shots - even clueless salespeople can still pick up on a discerning buyer, which never hurts and sometimes can help.

If there's any smaller pet stores, or dedicated fish stores in your area, frequent them more. Many of them are no better for advice, but the selection is often better, and if you get to know the staff, you can get the inside track on new arrivals or special orders.

 

[waterdrop]

Agree with Corleone.

You need to use water changes to maintain your ammonia between zero ppm and 0.25ppm and your nitrite(NO2) between zero and 0.25ppm. If either of these tests above that then changes of 50% or even 70% are in order, as the toxins become the more important concern that the other more minor reasons why we use smaller percentages. You can do a second water change as soon as an hour after the previous one if necessary. When you water change, use the proper amount of water conditioner and roughly match the temperature with your hand.

Are you using a good liquid-reagent based test kit? Many members here use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit or the Nutrafin Mini-Master Test Kit. Post up your tap water stats also for the members to see.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Tasha89]

Agree with Corleone.

You need to use water changes to maintain your ammonia between zero ppm and 0.25ppm and your nitrite(NO2) between zero and 0.25ppm. If either of these tests above that then changes of 50% or even 70% are in order, as the toxins become the more important concern that the other more minor reasons why we use smaller percentages. You can do a second water change as soon as an hour after the previous one if necessary. When you water change, use the proper amount of water conditioner and roughly match the temperature with your hand.

Are you using a good liquid-reagent based test kit? Many members here use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit or the Nutrafin Mini-Master Test Kit. Post up your tap water stats also for the members to see.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks for all your help guys and gals!

I'll post my tap water stats tonight.

I did 2 50% water changes yesterday a couple of hours between each other and tested the water before I went to bed, again PH, Ammonia, Nitrate is spot on. Luckily it looks like i've managed to dilute the Nitrite slightly as the reading has gone down from 0.5 to 0.25! Thank god! I'm still not out of the blue though, I lost my plec, 2 danios and another neon when I got home from work last night so i'm pretty gutted.

I've still got my betta and he looks like he's a fighter so i'm confident he'll pull through. I'm just a bit worried about my 4 danios and 3 neons. They're all still breathing quite rapidly and there's still a dark shade of red to their gills. I don't think they're gonna pull through...we'll see anyway. Fingers crossed there's no more deaths when I get home tonight!

In regards to Pets at Home, I have no intention of buying ANY fish from them again. They nearly sold me an angel fish but I backed out as had already purchased 3 platy's at the time so didn't want to stress all the other fish by overstocking to quickly. A week or so after I went to a reputable aquarium centre for some food and thought, "hmmm, I might get that angel fish." they immediatley said no because of what other fish I had in my tank. I then learnt about fin nipping instead of finding out the hard way!! They were REALLY helpful so I'll be getting all my new fish from there from now on! They're a tad more expensive but at the end of the day but at least I'll be getting the correct knowledge as well as the correct fish for my tank! I also went straight to them after having the problem with my nitrites and they sorted me out with that Green-X phosphate remover and also gave me their number to call them if I needed any more help! Good customer service or what?!

I think they'll be getting sick of seeing me, iwas back and forth with test results on Sunday! Haha! Won't be long until i'm on first name terms with them all!

Oh yeah, it's just a simple water testing kit I have, the one where you just put a tablet in a test tube and shake until dissolved. I think it's an interpet one. It does the job anyway.

And thanks again all, i'll keep you updated on our progress!

Natasha

 

[Bojangles]

Agree with Corleone.

You need to use water changes to maintain your ammonia between zero ppm and 0.25ppm and your nitrite(NO2) between zero and 0.25ppm. If either of these tests above that then changes of 50% or even 70% are in order, as the toxins become the more important concern that the other more minor reasons why we use smaller percentages. You can do a second water change as soon as an hour after the previous one if necessary. When you water change, use the proper amount of water conditioner and roughly match the temperature with your hand.

Are you using a good liquid-reagent based test kit? Many members here use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit or the Nutrafin Mini-Master Test Kit. Post up your tap water stats also for the members to see.

~~waterdrop~~

In regards to Pets at Home, I have no intention of buying ANY fish from them again. They nearly sold me an angel fish but I backed out as had already purchased 3 platy's at the time so didn't want to stress all the other fish by overstocking to quickly. A week or so after I went to a reputable aquarium centre for some food and thought, "hmmm, I might get that angel fish." they immediatley said no because of what other fish I had in my tank. I then learnt about fin nipping instead of finding out the hard way!! They were REALLY helpful so I'll be getting all my new fish from there from now on! They're a tad more expensive but at the end of the day but at least I'll be getting the correct knowledge as well as the correct fish for my tank! I also went straight to them after having the problem with my nitrites and they sorted me out with that Green-X phosphate remover and also gave me their number to call them if I needed any more help! Good customer service or what?!


Natasha

To be fair you can train Monkeys to do better jobs them the staff in pets at home do.

Hope your fish pull through

 

[B13]

I'm gonna ditto what Corleone and Waterdrop have both said...

I'm a bit further on with pretty much the exact same problem as you: bad, wrong or no advice from the garden centre fish shop, too many fish too soon, test results through the roof ...aaaaaand a couple of dead critters in the tank.

If it wasn't for this place, it would have been one HELL of a lot worse.


(It sickens me just how many people innocently do exactly the same thing I did. You go to a pet shop expecting the staff to be knowledgeable - let's face it, as a newbie pet owner, you're gonna 100% dependon what they say - do what they tell you and when things start getting sick or dying, you're either left high-and-dry in a flat panic, or given yet MORE bad and/or wrong advice and probably sold a Magic-Potion-That-Doesn't-Actually-Do-Anything! Meanwhile, the fish are suffering...)


Stick with it: I might have wet feet and a slight rash from the test chemicals, but my lil' fishies are looking happier!!

 

[petertr]

One more thing - never add any chemical to your tank on advise from the LFS - Ask on here first.

Unless you have an illness in the tank, chemicals are hardly ever required (Except tap water conditioner, known here as Dechlor - You always need to use that).


Your local store is a business that relies on profit. These boards are where people come to give advice - and very good advise it is too.

Here is an example of someone not following our advise:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=262462

Don't fall into that trap!

 

[Tasha89]

Here is an example of someone not following our advise:
[URL="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=262462"]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=262462[/URL]

Don't fall into that trap!

Jesus! What a plank! lol!

I immediately got a test kit as the aquatics centre advised it. They're called Maidenhead Aquatics www.fishkeeper.co.uk (anyone heard/use these guys?) They've been pretty helpful anyway.

And i've followed EVERY bit of advise given on this site. Like Corleone said,

Ultimately, the hobby itself (this site, for example) is the best place to get your information. We have no financial stake in anything, our priorities are your fish and your enjoyment of them.

I agree totally and if you have any advise/criticism I will take it onboard fully. At the end of the day you know exactly what your doing and have done for years by the sounds of it! lol!

So thanks,

Natasha

P.S. I'm gonna leave the tank for about a month before adding any other fish but I really don't think my danios are gonn last much longer. They're not very lively, like the should be, at all! One was lying at the base of the tank fighting for air, so I cupped him and took him to the surface (not literally!) so he could breath. Normally they're really skittish when I go in the tank but he just sat in my hand. I think they're giving in.
So, if they do go and I end up with 1 betta and 2 neons (possibly none as they're a bit iffy too), what would you suggest to go in the tank? I keep it at 24-25C??

 

[Tasha89]

Oh also, what are your views on adding Tetra Safe Start to aid the water?? A friend suggested this to me last night.

Thanks, Natasha

 

[waterdrop]

Natasha,

Getting your nitrite(NO2) level down to 0.25ppm last night was a good accomplishment, probably made live easier on the betta for the night. Since zero ppm is the desired level, though, and 0.25ppm is our made-up compromise that takes into account how hard water changes are, you might expect your nitrite to have crept up since then and will need more water changes today to try and approach zero ppm. Each day of working at this will gain you more of a feel for what pattern of percentages and frequency to use to acheive more time at zero ppm.

Nitrite molecules are able to attach to the spots on fish blood hemoglobin molecules that are normally reserved for oxygen molecules. As this occurs, the fish suffer chemical suffocation and permanent nerve damage occurs. Knowing this helps with motivation for all the water changes of this type of "fish-in" cycling situation.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Tasha89]

Getting your nitrite(NO2) level down to 0.25ppm last night was a good accomplishment, probably made live easier on the betta for the night.

I know! I was sooooo happy! I hate seeing any animal in distress so knowing that i'm really helping them is great! I'm gonna do 2 more 50% water changes tonight I think to lower it even more, is that advised?

Thanks, Tasha

 

[Corleone]

Getting your nitrite(NO2) level down to 0.25ppm last night was a good accomplishment, probably made live easier on the betta for the night.

I know! I was sooooo happy! I hate seeing any animal in distress so knowing that i'm really helping them is great! I'm gonna do 2 more 50% water changes tonight I think to lower it even more, is that advised?

Thanks, Tasha

It might not be 100% necessary depending on water stats, but it won't hurt. As long as the filter media stays wet and the fish aren't flopping around on the gravel at some point, you generally can't change too much water.