Green Algae Growth - Must Get Rid

[sophos9]

Tom, Hi

Your bass collection is great, I could do with a bass player, they are scarce in the UK!! I used to gig in a lot of bands (ranging from rock to blues) and should be sorting some new kit out soon possible a Gibson Les Paul with a JVM Series amp and 4x12 cab

Great stuff, already getting some good growth results following this plan! I did a 50% water change and had a clear up today, heres the pic

Thanks for your help...

 

[SuperColey1]

There are loadsa bass players in the UK matey, The Geddy Lee influence runs all over the world. lol

I play an Ibanez Blazer Custom 1981, which I ended up sanding back to natural white wood and clear varnishing. Really clanky sound to it much like a Rickenbacker

One of my best mates has a natural honey coloured Rickenbacker 1977, which really is clanky but a bit heavy and the action isn't as low as mine.

I actually sold a Gibson Les Paul standard, in a Dark Cherry Sunburst (not the bright red and yellow, was more like Dark Cherry and honey coloured) Lovely tiger striped pattenation on ebay last summer for £785. bought in the US in 1997 brand new, and I only played it around the house to write songs (which never came to fruition)

Sold all my amps cos I only 'potter' about every now and again doing one offs (due to pool commitements and 2 toddlers).

Maybe Bass and Guitar are the instrument of planted tank people.

Long Live Rush And Marillion

andy

 

[sophos9]

I've spent a load of time reading up on macros and how to diagnose if there is a missing nutrient, I'm fairly confident I understand but would like to throw this up for debate. Ok, here goes....

I've ordered a phosphate tester as I've got a sneaky feeling my levels are higher than they should be. My nitrate levels are now about 20ppm (have a 20% change scheduled tonight). Why are they not being used? Well this is what I have learnt in trying to find the missing nutrient.

If nitrates are below about 2ppm then plants are using it so more KNO3 should be dosed to get a 3-5ppm reading. If nitrates are increasing then I should add K2SO4 to the tank drop the nitrate level to as close to zero as possible however if the nitrates don't drop, something other than K is the missing nutrient

A quote I got from thekrib is "measuring the nitrate level is helpful for general tweaking; if adding nutrient X causes the nitrate level to drop, then the tank is probably deficient in X"

I know all you guys probably know all this stuff already and I'm only on the journey of discovery, things feel wrong to me unless I fully understand why I'm doing them and now I feel like I'm understanding. My plants are not growing as I would expect, sure there is growth and some pearling but nothing to write home about - logically I feel that something is missing. I've ordered some K2SO4 and will look to add that and see the effect it has on nitrates, hold back on P to establish if K is the limiting factor?

I found this article on the krib the best I've read, I made sense of it all! yey!

 

[sophos9]

Hi all, got my phosphate tester today and it confirmed my suspicions..... Phosphates at 5 or greater ppm!! Doh

So:
Nitrates at 20ppm
Phosphate at >5ppm
Water 2 x 20% changes and 1 x 50% per week

So this only leaves K2SO4 of which some turned up today...

So the plan is NOT to dose KNO3 or KH2PO4 and start dosing K2SO4 and see if nitrates come down - if so then K is the missing nutrient and I would expect to then see phosphate dropping as plants increase their growth

Sound like a plan or have I got it wrong?

 

[SuperColey1]

I sense that little me got something right here!!!!. Only cos I tried it myself though. lol

Has anyone tried the Esha Protalon 707 which is suposed to kill off all algae?

I know its not solving the problem, but if it works it would give people a fresh start when they get the problem.

Not hijacking as it may help Sophos as well here.

Andy

p.s. if you drop the KNO3 I think you may find that if K is the defficiency you will not be adding sufficient because you will be removing the K from the Pot Nit you were adding. Also if the plants start to used the N because the K is increased you may start to be short of N. Catch 22 a little bit but I would just leave out the MPK and see if that works.

Since going high light mine has had a similar attack to yours, although I was adding Pot Sulphate already as you know. I am now leaving the MKP out to see if it stops the algae as UK water often has too much phosphate especially in the farming areas like bloody Lincolnshire. lol

Good Luck

 

[sophos9]

I sense that little me got something right here!!!!. Only cos I tried it myself though. lol

Cool!!

I think I may be in the same boat as you so I have started dosing K2SO4 tonight and will watch to see if my nitrates drop, if not the search goes on! I'm on evens with the algae at the mo!

 

[SuperColey1]

Yeah when I tried it it was because I was on low light that I think it worked so well. Since going high light (1.1ish to 2.8ish) I am getting beard and fuzz algae like mad.

I think your nitrates should start to drop. will be interesting to see. Might give me some help. lol

Andy

 

[Dave Spencer]

Why are you concerned about your nitrates and phosphates? Phosphates are high, so you may not need to dose them, but your plants are getting plenty of both N and P, and will get K if you continue to dose Potassium Nitrate. If you feel there is a K deficiency, then Potassium Sulphate will help.

Your plants aren`t pearling like you expected. I think you are low on the CO2 side of things. Slowly increase your BPM over a period of time and watch your plants for signs of improved pearling, but also watch your fish. Don`t start taking away things that your plants need. They are your best defence against algae. Add any algicide you like, but if you don`t get your plants up and running you will suffer from algae again at a later stage.

If you introduce any deficiencies in to your tank your plants will suffer and algae will thrive.

Dave.

 

[sophos9]

Why are you concerned about your nitrates and phosphates? Phosphates are high, so you may not need to dose them, but your plants are getting plenty of both N and P, and will get K if you continue to dose Potassium Nitrate. If you feel there is a K deficiency, then Potassium Sulphate will help.

Good questions, I do have some answers so here goes....
First of all, I've removed water changes from the equation as I'm on top of that. I'm trying to roughly balance nutrients...
I've read that target nitrates should be 5ppm, potassium 20ppm and phosphates < 1ppm

Reasons behind the high phosphates are possibly:
Dosing KH2PO4 when not needed
Overfeeding (I have possibly been doing this due to the addition of new fish)
Plant growth not sufficient consume phosphates due to missing nutrients (which would also explain why the algae is outcompeting the plants)

Reasons for high nitrates:
The amount of nitrate added by KNO3 has not been utilised due to a lack of another nutrient

Reasons behind lack of plant growth
Lack of potassium sulphate (amount of potassium added using KNO3 not sufficient)

All I'm doing here is a quick test to dose K2SO4 and see what happens to the nitrate levels, if after 48hrs nitrates start to drop then you could conclude (if all other things are equal) that the missing nutrient was potassium if they don't then its another nutrient that's missing

Once I have the balance for the tank I will know how much K, N and P to dose per week to keep it even

I hope I have made some sense...

Your plants aren`t pearling like you expected. I think you are low on the CO2 side of things. Slowly increase your BPM over a period of time and watch your plants for signs of improved pearling, but also watch your fish. Don`t start taking away things that your plants need. They are your best defence against algae. Add any algicide you like, but if you don`t get your plants up and running you will suffer from algae again at a later stage.

If you introduce any deficiencies in to your tank your plants will suffer and algae will thrive.

Dave.

My CO2 is currently just over 1BPS, 24hr PH test suggests 30ppm, my live CO2 tester is on the brink of going yellow and the CO2 chart of KH 3dg with 6.6PH suggests 23ppm although the tetrastrips measuring KH are debatable at best! - fish are all fine. I'm not sure I should push this up any more?

Now I'm understanding more about nutrients I absolutely agree not having a deficiency, I guess that phosphates would be the one to control the most

I hope what I'm trying to achieve makes sense, if not PLEASE post up and let me know how I'm going wrong

 

[sophos9]

Just read my post that said I'm going to stop doing KNO3 - misleading or what?

Sorry, I'm only stopping over the next few days whilst trialling the above then I shall start dosing again however this time I will know that its being utilised!

I have a bad habit of not being able to explain what I'm thinking

 

[sophos9]

Checked nitrates tonight, they have dropped to 5ppm!

 

[Dave Spencer]

I am not sure what your N and P targets should be, seeing as your tank is not full on EI, but don`t reduce anything that is beneficial to your plants. The levels of N and P you have are dangerously high to your fish.

If you want to see a sudden and significant increase in pearling and growth, up your lighting and/or CO2.

Dave.

 

[sophos9]

thanks for the reply...

Do you mean the 20ppm nitrates and 5ppm phosphates are too high for the fish? If so, I agree and nitrates are down to 5ppm, have not tested phosphates but it should come down.

I've upped my CO2 slightly and will keep an eye on the fish

Some observations tonight... The algae that was growing on the structured backing nearly gone, green fuzz/hair algae is still on plants however its about a 50/50 split between green and brown algae, the brown algae looks clumps that are just stuck to plants due to the current, it can be hoovered off... Any ideas what this is?

Cheers

 

[sophos9]

I added 1.5ppm of KNO3 and upped my CO2 to about 2BPS, the live tester is still reporting OK and testing PH / KH indicates around 34ppm - the tank has hit the champagne state, looks unreal!

Fish are doing fine, all active with no strange signs! I will see what happens to nitrates/phosphates over the next few nights and adjust dosage to suit...

 

[Dave Spencer]

I missed out the word NOT when I said dangerously high. Your nitrates and phosphates are OK for fish. I am surprised noone shot me down in flames with this statement!

Glad to hear increasing your CO2 has helped, but double check your fish are OK tomorrow during lights on. If you ever decide to go>2WPG and settle on a stable fert regime with CO2 at 30ppm, algae will only appear when you get something wrong. Plus, you can grow what you like.

Dave.