Good News!can I Get Some Pics?

[newfishies]

Thanks, she said she will sleep on it, so I guess I'll find out tomorrow.

P.S. Could you put 2 males together if they were brothers and had never been separated?

NO

 

[SRC]

I am getting confused. I thought it was unnecessary to cycle a betta tank if frequent water changes are done.

This is the case for small 1-5 gallon tanks that people do not use filters on. ..as those are extremely difficult (if not impossible) to cycle.

You should filter a larger tank..it only makes sense. A sorroity tank full of females is no different then a cichlid tank or a community tank. Same size, same deal with cycling. Just make more sense economically and healthwise for the fish.

 

[jollysue]

I filter everything I can filter. I was just questioning the necessity of a complete fishless cycle in a still fairly small 10 usg tank for bettas. Couldn't you still do frequent small water changes for awhile while it stabilized?

 

[riogal_11]

Jollysue, that's what I did, and had no problem with it...... but I figure that's b/c bettas are so hardy.... So when this question comes about I try not to answer it or get involved, b/c most people I assume would say fishless cycle, but my girls have been fine for four months I know that's not established, but I can't forsee any problems coming up now having to do with my cycling.

 

[jollysue]

Yes, riogal, that's the impression I had when I started with the bettas, and I questioned pretty closely. I was uncomfortable with the idea of putting any fish in a totally virgin tank so I seasoned the biowheels and switched seasoned decor around. I have become more comfortable with the idea with the bettas now, but I still don't put the bettas in a completely raw tank.

I responded because Mac was getting some heavy insistence on cycling his sorority tank. Frankly I would suggest adding the fish more slowly. Five fish all at once is a heavy load in a new ten gal. If MaC has a tetra, maybe he has some decor from an established tank and that would be as effective (some seasoned decor, adding fish more slowly) as a fishless cycle, maybe. What do I know?

 

[SRC]

I'm not saying you have to...because clearly you don't.

But, it is healthier for the fish to cycle the tank before putting them in there..they don't have to live through the cycle if you cycle it before they get put in there.

Otherwise they have to endure severe ammonia spikes as the tank eventually cycles (over about a months time) not to mention you have to change a great deal of the water as you go along..so it's more expensive on you (i.e. extra water everyday and water conditioner, plus time and effort).

People do fishy cycles all the time...but then they are surprised when their fish have weakened immune systems and die at earlier ages...it's from going through a cycle alot of time..from what their body had to go through over that months time frame. It can also just straight up kill some fish..the stress of it all is just too much. It's up to each individual owner to decide what's right for THEIR individual fish..what is said here is merely a suggestion and facts on what can happen later on.

I will say this...alot of people condem others for not doing a fishless cycle...but in some areas it is extremely hard to come up with the supplies to do a fishless cycle. I'm doing one right now (a 20g community tank at my house) and lemme tell you..I had to search HIGH and low for the supplies, they aren't just readily available too much (at least not around here). It's hard to find pure straight up ammonia..most of it has other chemicals, perfumes and dyes in it...which aren't good.

You can use ornaments, gravel, and filter bags from other tanks (that's called seeding, if I'm not mistaken), but all that does is speed up the cycle a bit...it doesn't make your tank "ready cycled".

Cycling tanks is tricky, complicated business lol..that's why I like smaller individual tanks myself..so I don't have to worry with it (yes I know I'm lazy, but heck..can you blame me lol) .


**Edit**
Here is a great link to a fishless cycle I used...so far so good. (I knew I saw it her and I have it saved..but only in word format lol..finally found the link )
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=90452&hl=

 

[jollysue]

Thanks, SRC.

This is off thread a little, but thing is a smaller tank goes through a mini cycle every time new fish are added or something is changed in the tank. So what's the difference between well seeding, using bio-spira, or other helps to establish a tank and fishless cycling?

I do want to say that my first response in this thread was to a feeling that there was a pile-on starting to happen with MaC. The thing was to give MaC good advice for his situation. That's why I asked the question, in order to get a correct, clear, and friendly direction for him to go if he choses. Maybe encouraging MaC to do s fishless cycle is the way to go? If so let's give him clear detailed instructions. Us discussing it is different than piling a bunch of baggage on Mac.

Ok, also, aren't there unstable water conditions constantly in bowls and any other unfiltered betta recepticle. including puddles in Thailand? Just asking, I'm too lazy right now to go to the link. It's still night here. Just got up to go to bed from the couch and can't stay away from a good discussion. Actually, I should be doing water changes.

 

[SRC]

I think if you leave the fish in the water a long time that it will actually start a "cycle", which is why you should change your water often so that it doesn't.

Like with a 1 gallon..every 4 days is about as long as you should go without doing a WC..with more often being better..any longer and yes..it does start a "mini cycle"..which is the ammonia spike that makes your fish ill.

That's why we use the test kits..to make sure a cycle isn't going on. When your readings say 0 across the board..there is no cycle going on. When you start getting readings with your test kits..that means a cycle is starting.

Or atleast that's my understanding. (man it's 8am it's too early for this kinda thinking )


And they don't normally live in"puddles" persay..rice paddies are very big and vast (meaning they cover great sections of land)...they just aren't real deep (probably ankle deep..so about 4-5 inches in most places..some spots may get deeper or more shallow...I'm sure) lol.

Fish in a pond differ from our fish in tanks because they have earth and plants under them which absorb nutrients, where gravel does not.

In a rice paddy for instance..they are nothing but plants...which would readily absorb the nitrAtes produced from the nitrItes produced from the ammonia....which would leave the fish in nice clean water (ok not clean by my standards..cas I sure wouldn't drink it lol..but you get what I'm saying).

**edit**
GRRR if I have to edit this one more time for spelling or spacing..I'm gonna scream...ok, not really..cas I'm eating yogart and that would be messy...but I'm gonna get really ill .

 

[jollysue]

Of course you are right about an eco system and, anyway, I was thinking of gouramis like sparklers. )

I am serious when I ask about using tank helps like biospira and eco complete (let's ignore the Cycle debate.)

I ask and ask and am told that bio spira and advanced seeding with water changes and adding fish slowly is sufficient. That is also advice by major mods on the forum in threads discussing cycling new tanks.

It occurs to me in this discussion that perhaps, if MaC insists on starting his ten gallon off with 5 females, we should insist on fishless cycling?

BTW, Hikari is releasing a new tank starter, like biospira, that includes all the water conditioners and fish conditioners.

I am lazy and like to do things the easy way in my old age.

If you have to go, SRC, have a good intelectually challenging day.

 

[SRC]

I'm not sure how I feel about those products geared at "starting cycles" just yet..I'm still iffy on those.

I'm not a big fan of putting chemicals in my tanks to do things (ie ph stabilizers and algae removers). Ammonia is a natural substance, just like stress coat (which is just aloe vera). I feel like those chemicals can be unstable and then make your system crash..like PH raise/low will.

I completely understand being lazy...I got a streak a mile wide running through me lol.

I dunno what a sparkler is (except of course that it is a guromi..cas you just told me lol) but if they are in puddles the earth would still absorb the ammonia, where glass and gravel won't, and help keep them alive. Although I dont' see how they could live in a reasonably small puddle for extended periods of time...due to lack of oxygen.

 

[BrookeLea]

**edit**
GRRR if I have to edit this one more time for spelling or spacing..I'm gonna scream...ok, not really..cas I'm eating yogart and that would be messy...but I'm gonna get really ill .

Y-o-g-u-r-t....sorry! I just had to do it! I just found that very funny and ironic. Please don't scream...

 

[jollysue]

I understand sparklers do. Just an aside about Hikari's new product. I haven't seen it, but I understand it is a declorinator and stresscoat, probably some electrolytes and vitamins or something (knowing Hikari) and includes live bacteria culture. I suppose the test is always in the tests, kind of a new age proof is in the pudding I believe I got my cycling new tanks info from CRC or someone of that stature.

Good one BrookeLea

I just got a notice that a Super Black Copper Super Delta male I bid on while waiting is mine--after I pay.

 

[OohFeeshy]

You can use ornaments, gravel, and filter bags from other tanks (that's called seeding, if I'm not mistaken), but all that does is speed up the cycle a bit...it doesn't make your tank "ready cycled".

Mhmhm.... It can do. I mean, if you have a 10g tank and seed the filter with media from a 55g, depending on how much media you add the tank could be cycled. If you fill the filter with bacteria full media, its cycled. Just not cycled in the sense of the word, if you know what I mean. There won't be any spikes because you already have the filter bacteria to do that. But if you hvae say, a 55g and add some media to the filter from a cycled 10g, there won't be anywhere near enough bacteria to suport many (if any) fish, so you'll have to go through spikes....

 

[The ultimate_fish MaC dAddY]

Hey everybody, looks like I'm going to be getting them from PetSmart. Besides the females I'm getting another male. How much would the first one cost to order in the site below?

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=110623

 

[SRC]

Well since it's now 1:20pm I'm not so cranky anymore ...so you're good .