Fresh-Water Newbie

[This Old Spouse]

I'm asking elsewhere if anyone really knows the effect of long-term ammonia poisoning and will let you know if I get a definitive answer. In the meantime, no need to do any water changes for a few days I'd think, unless you get an ammonia spike. And hey, if they did fine without a heater, then so be it.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I would second (or third) the possibility that the temp shock might have been the last straw for the weakened fish. The fish are/were in a weakened state given the ammonia/nitrite that they have been exposed to for so long.


I don't know about you in the UK, but here in the US they make adapters that allow a garden hose to be hooked up to the kitchen sink. I use this with my tank, and I am able to closely match the temp for the water changes. I aim for about a 10 degree or less difference. I also aim for the lower side, as my fish prefer slightly cooler temps rather than higher. (The cooler water emulates a rainfall.) The bigger issue though is that if you are doing a massive 90% water change, and the temp isn't very closely matched, the temperature fluctuation will be far greater and a bigger issue. With weakened fish, it could be too much. Unfortunately, ammonia and nitrite can be silent killers - especially nitrite. There isn't always a symptom before it hits. Nitrite might show up as sluggishness, as the nitrite acts much like carbon monoxide does for humans. Ammonia gives a bit more symptoms with red gills or gasping at the surface at times. But that isn't always the case. The other thing about ammonia poisoning is that it continues to be an issue even after the problem has been dealt with. (It's like the after effects of smoking on people. Once the lungs are damaged to a certain extent, they cannot repair themselves.)


I feel terrible that just as your numbers were coming along the way they need to be that the fish are not dying on you. I can only imagine how frustrating this must be for you. You have worked so hard to get things right and now that they are much better, the long-term effects of the previous problem has come back to haunt you. Honestly, I don't know that this was avoidable. It might have been possible to delay it a few more months, maybe even another year if the water being warmer, but this was the eventuality. These fish weren't going to be capable to survive to the upper limits of their life span average. These fish could be compared to long-term heavy smokers. It was just a matter of time before it caught up to them. I'm sorry for your losses.

 

[King]

only thing that is weird is that MOST of the fish were NEW fish. the angels were the only old fish to die(but could have been really stressed). the others were put in like 2 weeks ago or whatever. i turned the water temp up a couple degrees and will do "warm" buckets next time i change water. im not in UK, i live in VA lol. i really appreciate the help everyone! tank is holding steady FOR NOW..

 

[eaglesaquarium]

My mistake! I nthat case head over to Home Depot or Lowes and pick up one of these:

 

[King]

what the best kind of water conditioner? i saw posts saying "stress coat" is this a brand or what? gonna get my girl to pick some up on her way home incase i need to do water changes. the conditioner i have was given to me with the tank so i hope its not old/screwed up. didnt think about that (even though ive used to 10x). anyway just trying to think outside of the box..

then should i buy a hose to dedicate to the tank, one person said vinyl hoses are bad. i dont know of any that ARENT vinyl. although way more time consuming the bucket/bathtub method seems most logical at this point. i can put my digi-thermo in the bucket for accurate water temp. but i could use the sink in the kitchen with that apparatus/hose. just dont want to use a hose thats gonna hurt them any further.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

The different dechlorinators don't matter much. Stress Coat is a dechlorinator that also detoxifies ammonia for a little while. If you were needing new stuf, I would get Prime, by SeaChem. I have some of that (I add a little each water change, because my tap water has 0.25ppm ammonia), but primarily I use API's Tap Water Conditioner. As long as it deals with chlorine, chloramines, and heavy metals, that's all it needs to do. It can also deal with ammonia and nitrite, which Prime does, and can be used to detoxify a mini-spike that might happen. (You aren't at that stage yet, but getting Prime would be a good move, as a little goes a long way.)

 

[King]

my tap has a TINY bit of ammo but barely reads on the color code. i assume "prime" can be purchased at petsmart/petco? anyone heard of "old" conditioner causing problems? i know i was naive and kinda hardheaded at first when i got on here but i appreciate the patience and help!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

No problem. Yes, there is an expiration date on these chemicals. Depending on the brand, it is usually built into the lot number. Usually the last four digits - MMYY. So, for example, my dad found an old bottle laying around his basement and gave it to me - last four digits were 0400 - April 2000. Needless to say, I ditched it. It had never been opened, but there was no point in trying something that was expired for over a decade!

I don't know that that would be your issue here though. If it were, you wouldn't have had so much time before running into this "death syndrome". It would have happened much sooner, I believe.



And yes, Prime should be found in any LFS. If it isn't you should probably find another LFS.

 

[King]

lol i only have petsmart and petco locally and they both SUCK. the only GOOD LFS is about an hour away from me. i will start with a new bottle of prime and ditch this other stuff just to be safe. i agree it would have likely started earlier but WHO KNOWS lol, this has been a mystery so far...

 

[This Old Spouse]

lol i only have petsmart and petco locally and they both SUCK. the only GOOD LFS is about an hour away from me. i will start with a new bottle of prime and ditch this other stuff just to be safe. i agree it would have likely started earlier but WHO KNOWS lol, this has been a mystery so far...

The only good things about Petco and PetSmart are the lower costs on supplies. They might have Seachem Prime there. They don't at my LFS so I just go with Stress Coat, and so far it's worked just fine. I also have trace amounts of ammonia in my tap water, so that takes care of it. And why not remove every possible factor you can and start with a new bottle?

I've learned on this forum that goldfish are not intolerant of warmer water temps that would be suitable for tropical fish, but on the other hand, trying to keep tropical fish in cooler water just doesn't work. So if you're keeping the goldfish, you can still raise the water temp to suit the tropicals. But they are really messy fish.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Both Petsmart and Petco around me have Prime. I would expect that they would.



I think that the blanket statement regarding Petsmart and Petco is an inaccurate one. That would be like saying that all independents are good. Each store has its own identity. One store could be awful and another could be really good. I think it comes down to the manager of the specific store. If the fish manager really knows their stuff and hires good people, then the local Petsmart/Co could be just as good as any independent store. It really depends.


I agree, better safe than sorry.

 

[King]

havent decided what to do with the big coy goldfish yet, they stopped eating the neons so i havent gotten rid of them lol.

ok i made that statement about MY pet stores. they both suck here. low on stock, very low on info, dead fish in the aquariums, small selection, NO salt water (not that i care about that), always lame employees that dont care or know anything. thats just here..

 

[King]

apparently that angel is still hanging on, saw it laying on its side in some plants and wanted to watch it instead of just "flushing" it. now its in the back bottom of the tank but right side up, just kinda sitting there. so i am going to continue to monitor it, who knows it might come back (hopefully)..

 

[This Old Spouse]

Stopped eating WHICH neons?? LOL! They're all gone!

And honestly, I haven't seen a good fish section of a Petco yet, and I've seen a lot. Granted that of course a good employee can make all the difference, but that happens so rarely. I think just about the best LFS employee I've seen worked at a WalMart. He was a fish geek for sure, but the guy knew his fish and what he was talking about. I'd trade him for the LFS Owner we've had trouble with any day. But in general I certainly wouldn't recommend shopping for fish at your local WalMart.

The subject has been beaten to death about LFSs everywhere, large and small, good and bad. The thing to do is find the one that gives you the best information and healthiest fish, and to heck with the name on the storefront.

There. All better.

apparently that angel is still hanging on, saw it laying on its side in some plants and wanted to watch it instead of just "flushing" it. now its in the back bottom of the tank but right side up, just kinda sitting there. so i am going to continue to monitor it, who knows it might come back (hopefully)..

*crossing fingers*

 

[King]

haha now now they only ate 24 neons, i think 3 died and theres still 9 lol. oh i agree, just like any business there are good and bad. ours just happen to suck lol. theres still a few fish that usually dont hang out at the surface up there but nothing else has died thankfully. i guess a little more time will tell!