Fresh-Water Newbie

[This Younger Spouse]

I'm no expert, but my reading indicates that ammonia and nitrite poising can be sneaky. It weakens the fish, and weakens their immune systems. It shortens their life. What you really don't know is how well cared for this tank and these fish were before you got them. If you bought the whole thing as a package and there was no test kit with it, that to me would quite possibly indicate that ammonia and nitrites were slowly taking the life away from your fish.

Then all the radical fluctuations in ammonia and nitrite could have been the straw that broke the camel's back. If I'm wrong about any of that, someone certainly will politely correct me.

I did a lot of tropical and saltwater fishkeeping 25-30 years ago, very successfully, and when I got back into it just a couple months ago I was shocked almost immobile by all the differences in how things are done now. Things have come a VERY long way. I had a lot to learn in a short period, basically totally relearning the hobby.

What I think your best option is at this point is to rehome every living fish you have, either at a LFS for credit, the goldfish going to the zoo, or with a responsible and knowledgeable fishkeeping friend. It may or may not be feasible depending on how many fish you have left.

Then completely clean out the tank (but hold on to your filter media), and do a fishless nitrogen cycle. The filter media you have already has some bacteria colonizing it, based on your readings, so that might help speed up your fishless cycle.

There is a complete primer on fishless cycling here.

Trust me, I know how frustrating it can be making these mistakes, and you are learning quickly. Sort of a trial by fire. We are all wishing you the very best of luck, Kling!

 

[This Old Spouse]

Please pardon the seemingly stupid queries from me, but are you dechloring the water? Warming it up to tank temp first? Was the gourami a dwarf gourami, and could it have died from their specific disease?

God, I just feel terrible about all your fish dying like this. Something is wrong that we're missing.

 

[King]

thanks, this REALLY SUCKS!! i just watched the other angel die and a platy laying in a plant. yes blue dwarf gourami. i use water conditioner with every change! those angels were YEARS old and both gone in 12hrs!! what am i missing??

 

[This Younger Spouse]

TOS and I were just discussing this, King. And these questions may sound stupid and insulting but are not meant to be. To be a bit more detailed, are you using a garden hose attached to your outdoor water spigot? To a basement laundry sink? If you're putting in cold water out of the outdoor spigot, that's potentially a 30-degree temp swing every time you change your water, and that will shock/kill fish.

And if you are mixing hot/cold out of the taps to put in your new water within a couple degrees of your old water, are you running the taps for a minute or more to clear any buildup that might have formed?

Or are you filling into a bucket and transferring that way?

This has become a huge long thread, and while I just read through the whole thing before making my last reply, it's possible I missed the answers to these questions. If so, sorry.

But we're interested in you leading us through your water change procedure in detail.

 

[This Old Spouse]

If your ammo is that low, don't do another massive water change yet. Hold off until we can explore some other stuff, because with your trite at 0 and the trate at, wait a minute, WHAT is your trate reading? 2.5 doesn't make much sense. Could it be 25 ppm?

If you're filling from the basement sink, a) are you warming the water first? b) are you running the hot water just into the sink for a minute to make sure there's not any junk buildup from the pipes coming through?

 

[King]

i was planning to go buy a 29gal from someone today and start on another set up. should i go ahead and get it and try to put my filters in it and transplant the fish and start over on the 55gal? i gotta do something asap or everything is going to die. i dont have any fish friends and the closest fish store is an hour away.

 

[This Younger Spouse]

i was planning to go buy a 29gal from someone today and start on another set up. should i go ahead and get it and try to put my filters in it and transplant the fish and start over on the 55gal? i gotta do something asap or everything is going to die. i dont have any fish friends and the closest fish store is an hour away.

It'll take a very long time, a matter of at least a few weeks, to get a new tank ready for fish using the fishless cycle method. I'm told you can pretty strongly speed up the fishless cycling by using mature colonized filter media (I'm doing that right now on a new 20-gallon setup), but you don't have any of that type of media, and likely the local fish store is the only place you could beg some. That's why I thought it might be a good idea to rehome the remaining fish and start from scratch with the 55-gal.

I don't think there's anything you can do lickety split unless you can call the LFS and see if they'll take your fish. Then run them over (2 hr round trip sucks, I know), and then take your time to do a fishless cycle in the 55.

That's just what occurs to me at this moment. There are certainly more experienced people on this forum who may have gone through your situation, or may have better options.

 

[King]

anyway the plants could be harming them? i cant see how, and i lost 2 neons and 2 plecos several days ago and the plants went in late last night. water levels are pretty low i keep the tank 73.5* and have a digital thermo with a glass thermo for "back up". i dont even know if i should attempt a big water change right now with them freaking out already. i know a fish-less cycle would take a while but i was thinking of having to do a fish-in cycle with my filters. i dont want to get rid of them but i dont want to KILL them either.

missed the post about the water temp. the water that im putting in is like 70*, the heater only has to cut on for a very short time. its a hose from outside that i pull in the window. i dont have any other way of water. like i said ive done this 10x and just now fish start dropping dead. im wondering "sickness" at this point really..

 

[This Younger Spouse]

As TOS said, I wouldn't do a water change. The Ammonia's not at 0, but it's quite low at .10, as long as that's correct and not 1.0. I agree the nitrates should be a good bit higher. I don't think plants are part of your problem.

You've basically been doing a fish-in cycle after you started taking the advice of the experts here, and it seems to be working a these last few days.

I wonder if you would do another test regimen for us to be absolutely sure of those numbers. It matters a lot. Also, are you thoroughly rinsing your test tubes and caps between testing? That's a must do as well to ensure accurate results.

And we are still interested in your detailing your exact procedure for doing your water changes. That could tell us something useful.

 

[This Old Spouse]

I think the water temp is shocking them to death. First off, your temp should be up around 78 or so. The water that comes in from the hose outside is around 55. It's not the only way to get water in your tank, just the easiest, I'm afraid. You could fill up 5 gallon buckets of water for which you've adjusted the temp and added the Stress Coat or Prime to already, then slowly add the water to the tank.

 

[This Younger Spouse]

Given the temps you added to the thread, I pretty much agree with TOS on the temp change. Your thermometer should tell you exactly what the temp is when you add that fresh water. For my tanks, which are in the next room across the hall from the bathroom, I put Stress Coat (dechlorinator and ammonia reducer) in the bucket, use a digital probe thermometer in the bathtub tap water stream to match my tank temp within one degree, and then fill the bucket. The agitation blends in the Stress Coat, and then I slowly pour it into my tank.

The hard part about using water from outside is you're only guessing about the temp unless you measure it, and it's almost certainly colder than 70 degrees.

I'm reversing my advice about emergency rehoming. Stressed as they are, running them around a tank with a net and putting them in bags for a bouncy hour-long trip to the LFS, as well as the transition to the LFS tanks, would probably kill some or all of them.

I guess if it were my tank, I'd get that water up to 78 as TOS said (the goldfish can handle that OK), immediately retest and make sure the test tubes and caps are thoroughly rinsed with tap water before you retest, and then post the results.

 

[King]

i have noticed no aggressive behavior. the gold fish "gulped down" those smallest neons but thats it. im using that outdoor hose, is there any better way? i cant get to anything else. is there any kind of hose that is cleaner? i dont know..

 

[This Younger Spouse]

i have noticed no aggressive behavior. the gold fish "gulped down" those smallest neons but thats it. im using that outdoor hose, is there any better way? i cant get to anything else. is there any kind of hose that is cleaner? i dont know..

See my post above for a safer method. Do you not have access to bathroom taps or kitchen sink taps? If you don't have a kitchen sink or bathtub tap tall enough to fit a 5-gallon bucket under it, you'll have to use smaller buckets to transfer water into the larger bucket, and then into your tank.

 

[King]

well everything has been fine through all of this. LOTS of massive water changes, bringing the levels down, and temp. just doesnt seem like adding in some cool water would cause these fish to all of the sudden start dropping dead and breathing out of the water line. but of course i have no explanation for it either. if they started acting funny i could see something "slow" hurting them but they have been fine. i inspect the tank several times a day and check everyone out. the way i know the water temp is because i have a digital thermo that runs down to about 3" above the gravel and i watch it, ive never seen the temp drop below 70. also these angels were in here forever with NO HEATER, NO THERMO, NO TEST KIT, i took it off the hands of a family that did nothing but feed the fish. i slowly brought the levels down and got it at a constant temp, that SHOULD help them lol. im going to keep an eye on it for a little while and post back...

im not convinced that the hose is causing it because i have used it this whole time through it all. i can def get buckets and use if need be. i dont think the temp is hurting them either. i also use water purifier everytime. should i do a massive water change (might stress them) and refill with buckets? ill try anything right now.

 

[This Younger Spouse]

well everything has been fine through all of this. LOTS of massive water changes, bringing the levels down, and temp. just doesnt seem like adding in some cool water would cause these fish to all of the sudden start dropping dead and breathing out of the water line. but of course i have no explanation for it either. if they started acting funny i could see something "slow" hurting them but they have been fine. i inspect the tank several times a day and check everyone out. the way i know the water temp is because i have a digital thermo that runs down to about 3" above the gravel and i watch it, ive never seen the temp drop below 70. also these angels were in here forever with NO HEATER, NO THERMO, NO TEST KIT, i took it off the hands of a family that did nothing but feed the fish. i slowly brought the levels down and got it at a constant temp, that SHOULD help them lol. im going to keep an eye on it for a little while and post back...

im not convinced that the hose is causing it because i have used it this whole time through it all. i can def get buckets and use if need be. i dont think the temp is hurting them either. i also use water purifier everytime. should i do a massive water change (might stress them) and refill with buckets? ill try anything right now.

Well, I mentioned what I think you should do. Raise the temp to 78, retest after thoroughly rinsing your test kit, and leave it alone for awhile unless the numbers are goofy. I think you've made some incorrect assumptions about the health of your fish in your last post, and if you read my and some other replies about ammonia and nitrite toxicity and its effects, you'll see we've touched on why years of neglect all might have come to a head. But we're here and interested in what you find upon retesting.

And we're not convinced the hose is the cause of your troubles, either. Just that your water change regimen is one possible cause of stress on the fish.