Forum Improvement Idea

[blue acara]

Another forum I frequent has a very cool tool that lets members give positive or negative feed back to each post.

Basic idea is if you create an interesting and useful thread or post other senior members can click a green 'good' box under your post then write a short explaination of why they think the post is worthy. Same goes for bad posts, make that a red box. The member who gave the comment would be secret (mods would know who though).

If you got lots of green positive marks you get fun titles that would be displayed with your name...like what we have now only more levels to advance and better named titles. You would be rewarded for the content of your posts instead of the amount of posts.

Only mods and trusted members with x number of posts and x amount of time at TFF would be able to give point gaining green marks, this attempts to prevent people abusing the system. Newer members could still give positive feedback to a post, but it wouldn't add any points.-they would give a grey mark or something.

I realise the mods and site owner have enough to do without this but it would surely be an excellent addition to the forum. Post content would improve and I think it could attract more members and amount of posts.

 

[Bignose]

It is just another system by which people would mostly falsely assume that someone with a certain amount of reputation points would be giving better advice. Just like some people assume today that people with large numbers of posts must be giving good advice. This is also mostly false. High post count only means that that person has posted a lot of times. The rep points system would only mean that that person has posted a lot of things that people want to see -- not necessarily that the advice was correct.

For example, someone asks the classic "am I overstocked?" question. 10 people reply yes, 1 person replies no. The poster then gives negative rep for the 10 yes's and positive rep for the 1 no. How do you prevent such things?

I just don't see the benefit, really. Frankly, I could even do without the post count being displayed, because as I wrote above, people tend to assume that high number of posts must = knowledge. Far, far too often these numbers are as reflective of a popularity contest than anything else. The popular members will get more rep whereas the unpopular ones won't.

The real thing that needs to happen is that each post is judged on its own merits: how well researched and backed up by fact it is. Yes, this may mean doing a little additional research besides just taking an answer at face value, but if you want to be sure of the quality of the advice, then that is what needs to be done. I don't think that any system of points or post count or anything else can replace well-thought out and well-researched posts.

 

[raptorrex]

It is just another system by which people would mostly falsely assume that someone with a certain amount of reputation points would be giving better advice. Just like some people assume today that people with large numbers of posts must be giving good advice. This is also mostly false. High post count only means that that person has posted a lot of times. The rep points system would only mean that that person has posted a lot of things that people want to see -- not necessarily that the advice was correct.

For example, someone asks the classic "am I overstocked?" question. 10 people reply yes, 1 person replies no. The poster then gives negative rep for the 10 yes's and positive rep for the 1 no. How do you prevent such things?

I just don't see the benefit, really. Frankly, I could even do without the post count being displayed, because as I wrote above, people tend to assume that high number of posts must = knowledge. Far, far too often these numbers are as reflective of a popularity contest than anything else. The popular members will get more rep whereas the unpopular ones won't.

The real thing that needs to happen is that each post is judged on its own merits: how well researched and backed up by fact it is. Yes, this may mean doing a little additional research besides just taking an answer at face value, but if you want to be sure of the quality of the advice, then that is what needs to be done. I don't think that any system of points or post count or anything else can replace well-thought out and well-researched posts.

Nuff said, i think!

 

[aaronnorth]

and even if the post was excellent, someone else else may just give them negative feedback because they dont like them

 

[blue acara]

It is just another system by which people would mostly falsely assume that someone with a certain amount of reputation points would be giving better advice. Just like some people assume today that people with large numbers of posts must be giving good advice. This is also mostly false. High post count only means that that person has posted a lot of times. The rep points system would only mean that that person has posted a lot of things that people want to see -- not necessarily that the advice was correct.

The titles arent there just to say 'this person knows alot' they are like a reward and incentive for members to post useful helpful information. I don't judge the value of a post by the members post count or any title they have, nor does any sane mature person. At least the new rep system would be a more accurate way to judge a members knowledge for those that do that.

For example, someone asks the classic "am I overstocked?" question. 10 people reply yes, 1 person replies no. The poster then gives negative rep for the 10 yes's and positive rep for the 1 no. How do you prevent such things?

I gave a way to prevent this in my original post. Someone asking 'am I overstocked?' is always going to be a newer member, only mods and trusted members with x number of posts and x amount of time at TFF would be able to give positive or negative points. Even then abusers of the system could be banned from giving points by mods.

I just don't see the benefit, really. Frankly, I could even do without the post count being displayed, because as I wrote above, people tend to assume that high number of posts must = knowledge. Far, far too often these numbers are as reflective of a popularity contest than anything else. The popular members will get more rep whereas the unpopular ones won't.

Popular members will get lots of rep... yes and I don't see any problem with that as long as the rep is given for useful posts.
The benefit is that, if we only give positive rep for good posts some members will try harder, do research and generally make their posts better. The key is only giving rep where it is deserved.

The real thing that needs to happen is that each post is judged on its own merits: how well researched and backed up by fact it is. Yes, this may mean doing a little additional research besides just taking an answer at face value, but if you want to be sure of the quality of the advice, then that is what needs to be done. I don't think that any system of points or post count or anything else can replace well-thought out and well-researched posts.

I agree

and even if the post was excellent, someone else else may just give them negative feedback because they dont like them

The only people that would be able to give rep points would be trusted members. This is a fish forum, how many people dislike eachother here? Fish wars LOL

 

[Truck]

i just dont see the point to be honest...you can quickly see how trusted a member is by the quality of their posts.

 

[blue acara]

i just dont see the point to be honest...you can quickly see how trusted a member is by the quality of their posts.

Yes very true, this would reward them! People will say 'oh I don't care about titles' but still it would be nice if, when you take some time and write a decent post to help someone you got a little acknowledgement. Im not moaning here. Even the most mature person, the 100 year old fishkeeper.. will take some small pleasure in a rep system like this. It works on the other forum why not here.

 

[Truck]

i wouldnt get a buzz from a little thumbs up on my avatar or post

 

[blue acara]

i wouldnt get a buzz from a little thumbs up on my avatar or post

ok then, add more tangible rewards for obtaining a certain title. Like an ability to modify your profile page more, bigger space for your avatar or signature. Maybe adding a restricted 'title only members' forum could be done... where you can talk about general stuff.

I wouldn't describe getting a title as a 'buzz' either, if I want a buzz I go to a pub or club, or stick my finger in a plug socket. It just a little acknowledgement for the hundreds of hours you spend on this forum.

 

[Truck]

i believe this was tried out a few years ago and didnt work

 

[aaronnorth]

The only people that would be able to give rep points would be trusted members. This is a fish forum, how many people dislike eachother here? Fish wars LOL

then you have to ask what defines a trusted member?

I gave a way to prevent this in my original post. Someone asking 'am I overstocked?' is always going to be a newer member, only mods and trusted members with x number of posts and x amount of time at TFF would be able to give positive or negative points. Even then abusers of the system could be banned from giving points by mods.

so you set it at 1000 posts, and 1yr membership, then they can become trusted?
those 1000 posts can be full of useless posts, and a person can quite easily change to be an untrustworthy member, ok you can ban them but it is just creating more unecassary work for mods,

i know lots of people who dont like each other!!

 

[blue acara]

so you set it at 1000 posts, and 1yr membership, then they can become trusted?
those 1000 posts can be full of useless posts, and a person can quite easily change to be an untrustworthy member, ok you can ban them but it is just creating more unecassary work for mods,

i know lots of people who dont like each other!!

I wouldn't put a strict rule on number of posts or time on forum required as the only way of becoming trusted to rate. The mods should hand pick the first group of people to be trusted based on the quality of their previous posts and activeness.

This group of people could then rate other peoples posts and eachothers(cant rate your own post obviously), members would be earning points for good posts. If a member writes say 50 good posts they earn the right to rate other peoples posts, getting titles as they go.

If a member gets negative ratings (for being rude/posting wrong information etc) their title progression and the ability to rate posts will take longer.

 

[Bignose]

I still don't see how a point system is any better or worse than post count, and I still don't see how in any way it replaces good ol' fashioned research and thinking for yourself if you have any questions about any individual post. There really isn't any shortcut on the question of post accuracy short of having the mods/experts review each and every post.

It isn't just a simple question of right/wrong, either. There are some "rules of thumb" that many people accept as right, even though the facts don't bear them out. There are situations that many people would call wrong, but may in fact be right for certain situations. Right or wrong isn't a distinct line, it is often very fuzzy and imperfect. What is wrong yesterday may be right today. A system of +1 or -1 for right and wrong posts doesn't handle this well at all.

If someone is posting wrong information, the best thing to do is to post the correct information with citations that back up what you think is right. If someone is posting rudely or grossly inaccurate information, hit the report button and the mods will take care of it. They don't need negative points to "shame" them into posting better or with more decorum. They often just need a PM telling them to stop trolling (rude posts) or they just may be repeating the wrong information that can be found all over the internet. All the person needs is exposure to the correct ideas.

I think giving someone negative rep when they post something wrong out of ignorance is kind of like giving someone an F on a calculus exam even though they have only taken basic arithmetic. It doesn't mean anything because they have never even had the chance to learn the correct information. If the person had been shown the correct information several times and still posts the incorrect information, then they are trolling -- often deliberately -- and no amount of negative rep is going to stop that behavior anyway.

Again, in short, I just don't see how it is any kind of improvement at all. Either the positive or negative rep.

I'm not just dismissing it out of hand, but I am also a member of forums that have this kind of system, and I just see it adding any real value. The value of any individual post lies with the accuracy and timeliness of that particular post. No more, no less.

 

[blue acara]

I finding it hard to get my point across here, one last try.

Point system and post count are two completly different things in my mind but thats not the point. The main goal of a points system is to reward good posts thereby encouraging people to write good posts. What a good post is is up for debate but we all know a decent post when we see one.

Couple examples of good posts:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=303673- BigC
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=304419- nmonks post a few down

I think we can agree that these posts have value.

In a point system people will read posts like these and notice the green sticker at the bottom and the nice comment and they might just be inspired to make a great thread like BigCs with fantastic pictures that tell a story but instead documenting the breeding behaviour of their Geophagus?

Someone else reads nmonks post and takes note at his direct, clear and interesting way he writes the post. They also notice he has added a useful link and uses the correct latin name of an animal where appropriate...seems simple to write a decent post now.

This reward system was never about giving bad rep, I see your points on the bad rep side of it. Scrap the bad rep side of it.

People are smart but they are driven by primative impulses. Its very possible that some people have posted 1250 completly useless posts to get the adjustable text bonus thing. People crave titles you can see it in video games, work...life in general.

Create a decent title system(with better names than the unimaginative ones we have at present)on this forum where you progress by posting quality not quantity.

 

[blue acara]

119 views and noone has anything positive to say about the idea? Someone must be as crazy as me to think this idea is good...?