Fishless Cycling

[aaronc]

Hi Dr Bogger

Im not too sure on that one. But if it does then you don't want to use it when cycling. The whole point is to develop the bacteria to do it.

HTH

Aaron

 

[rdd1952]

Do I boost my ammonia back up to 5ppm as well as hanging some filter media, or just add the filter media only until it sets up bacteria enough to depleat my current 2.0ppm worth of ammonia?

I would raise it back up to a normal starting point. If you can put the media directly in your filter, that would be best. If you can't, hang it near the filter and water flow.

 

[Dr. Bogger]

Hi Dr Bogger

Im not too sure on that one. But if it does then you don't want to use it when cycling. The whole point is to develop the bacteria to do it.

HTH

Aaron

Yeah, but i still would like to know what it does, and how it works.... and it still may actualy be "bennifical" to the bacteria, but i'm not sure.....

Does anyone here know anything about that?

 

[BigTallV]

Do I boost my ammonia back up to 5ppm as well as hanging some filter media, or just add the filter media only until it sets up bacteria enough to depleat my current 2.0ppm worth of ammonia?

I would raise it back up to a normal starting point. If you can put the media directly in your filter, that would be best. If you can't, hang it near the filter and water flow.

It's an Eheim Classic external cannister (model #2217). I believe there is a bit of room to accomodate excess (including someone else's media I suppose). I've contacted my colleague and will use the bag from his hang-on-tank power filter (... an aquaclear maybe) and pick that up later today... will keep it wet with some of his tank water in a ziplock bag or small bucket. I've boosted the ammonia this morning by adding roughly 12ml (counting drops... blech!), tested the water twice along the way - is now definitely over 4ppm but way below that of 8ppm based on those coloured bars on the API test kit cards. If I had to call it, I'd say it's approx. 5ppm.

Some related questions:
1) How long do I leave this filter in my cannister or hanging in my tank?
2) I have the charcoal filter pad in my Eheim filter (was in there to begin with so I left it in when starting up tank). Should this be in or out during cycling/startup? Can I re-use this if I take it out (i.e. no bio-load in tank yet... so shouldn't be spent?!?!?)
3) How long 'roughly' do my filter pads and or media substrate last in an Eheim? Granted fish loading and tank environment and type of fish all are mitigating factors... but a 'rough' idea is all I'm looking for. Weeks, months?

Thanks again, I look forward to any advice!

/BigTallV

 

[reg]

My ammonia took 7 days to drop fromm 6 ppm to 1 ppm. I then raised it to 4 ppm, and it was at zero in 24 hrs.

I am cycling my 29 gal, and plan to stock it with 10 pearl danios and 6 albino cory cats. I was thinking of adding the 10 pearls first, waiting a week, and then adding the corys. I just fear loosing all the fish if heaven forbid I have some problem with the tank due to possible contamination or something. What do you suggest?

 

[aaronc]

My ammonia is going from 4ppm to 1ppm in about 12 hours now. Got nitrite level of about 1.6 and nitrates off the scale. Just got to wait for the nitrite levels to start dropping sooner and I will be there. yay

 

[rdd1952]

It's an Eheim Classic external cannister (model #2217). I believe there is a bit of room to accomodate excess (including someone else's media I suppose). I've contacted my colleague and will use the bag from his hang-on-tank power filter (... an aquaclear maybe) and pick that up later today... will keep it wet with some of his tank water in a ziplock bag or small bucket. I've boosted the ammonia this morning by adding roughly 12ml (counting drops... blech!), tested the water twice along the way - is now definitely over 4ppm but way below that of 8ppm based on those coloured bars on the API test kit cards. If I had to call it, I'd say it's approx. 5ppm.

Some related questions:
1) How long do I leave this filter in my cannister or hanging in my tank?
2) I have the charcoal filter pad in my Eheim filter (was in there to begin with so I left it in when starting up tank). Should this be in or out during cycling/startup? Can I re-use this if I take it out (i.e. no bio-load in tank yet... so shouldn't be spent?!?!?)
3) How long 'roughly' do my filter pads and or media substrate last in an Eheim? Granted fish loading and tank environment and type of fish all are mitigating factors... but a 'rough' idea is all I'm looking for. Weeks, months?

Thanks again, I look forward to any advice!

/BigTallV

1) With a cannister filter, you should be able to put the filter pack in your filter and just leave it. You will have bacteria immediately. It most likely wont be enough for your tank to be cycled but will be a great jumpstart. There won't be any need to take it out until you clean your filter for the first time.

2) The charcoal filter won't hurt the cycling process. That may be the cause of the immediate drop in ammonia when you started. It could have pulled some of the ammonia from the water. A lot of people don't use charcoal at all. I don't use it in any of my tanks. After about 2 or 3 weeks, it has absorbed about all it can so it isn't doing anything except being a media for the bacteria. There are other types of media such as sponges and ceramic rings that do a much better job than the charcoal.

3) Depending on the type of media, it can last for a long time. My 75 gallon still has the same ceramic rings in it as when I set it up in March of 2005. The sponges will also last a long time. In general, any filter pack, pad or sponge that isn't torn up or in bad shape is still good. Just keep them rinsed out (in tank water or clean declorinated water) so they don't become clogged and they are good to go.

I hope that helps.

reg, you can add the fish in 2 loads. You may get a small mini cycle but it shouldn't be too bad or last too long. There is always a chance that you will get sick or diseased fish but if you stick with true LFSs you should be safe. I would stay away from Walmarts if at all possible. I have been fortunate and never gotten a sick or diseased fish and I have bought from 5 different places including 2 Petsmarts. Just look at the tanks and the fish in the store. If the tanks are clean and you don't see any signs of disease in the fish, you should be ok. The down side to adding fish in 2 loads is that the first fish could be fine and the second ones sick in which case you have to treat the whole tank anyway and still risk losing them.

 

[BigTallV]

1) With a cannister filter, you should be able to put the filter pack in your filter and just leave it. You will have bacteria immediately. It most likely wont be enough for your tank to be cycled but will be a great jumpstart. There won't be any need to take it out until you clean your filter for the first time.

2) The charcoal filter won't hurt the cycling process. That may be the cause of the immediate drop in ammonia when you started. It could have pulled some of the ammonia from the water. A lot of people don't use charcoal at all. I don't use it in any of my tanks. After about 2 or 3 weeks, it has absorbed about all it can so it isn't doing anything except being a media for the bacteria. There are other types of media such as sponges and ceramic rings that do a much better job than the charcoal.

3) Depending on the type of media, it can last for a long time. My 75 gallon still has the same ceramic rings in it as when I set it up in March of 2005. The sponges will also last a long time. In general, any filter pack, pad or sponge that isn't torn up or in bad shape is still good. Just keep them rinsed out (in tank water or clean declorinated water) so they don't become clogged and they are good to go.

I hope that helps....

Helps plenty!

On (2) above, my external cannister filter has a couple different types of sponges, as well as a charcoal sponge, and two types of other media in it (the rings you speak of and these other small marble sized pebbles). Seems like the model of filter I have covers most of the angles and leaves room for other optional media as desired. Was just curious as to when to expect to service/replace any or all of it. So the LPS or LFS will expect a visit from me at some point, but hopefully as (in)frequently as you do for media replacement.

Thx again rdd.
/BigTallV
/BigTallV

 

[rdd1952]

It will probably depend on your stocking level (how dirty the filters get - over-filter and understock is the best rule). Sponges don't wear our very fast (may get clogged if you are heavily stocked and done clean them enough) and the media will last for a long, long time. You probably won't ever have to change the rings and marbles (what ever those are). I'm not certain about the charcoal sponge. As I mentioned, charcoal and carbon generally absorb about all then can in a couple weeks. The main use of charcoal or carbon by most people is to remove medications from the tank after treatment for a disease, not as a media for the bacteria.

 

[aaronc]

Hi All

Quick question re Cycling.

I am at the point now where my ammonia is used in full within 12 hours but my Nitrite is still not going down, it is being used as the nitrate is off the scale. Do I just keep adding 3ppm until both the ammonia and nitrite is consumed within 12/24 hours?

Thanks

 

[Dr. Bogger]

Hi All

Quick question re Cycling.

I am at the point now where my ammonia is used in full within 12 hours but my Nitrite is still not going down, it is being used as the nitrate is off the scale. Do I just keep adding 3ppm until both the ammonia and nitrite is consumed within 12/24 hours?

Thanks

How long did it take you to get to this point?
it's now been 2 weeks for me, and if u read above, my ammonia droped to 2ppm, then just halted...

 

[aaronc]

It has taken me about a week, although I did get a huge clump of matured filter wool from my LFS to hurry it along.

Mine was stuck at 1ppm for a while, I didnt really do anything about it, just kepting topping it back up to 3-4ppm and now its dropped to 0 overnight.

Have you been adding extra ammonia and topping it up to 3-4ppm?

Aaron

 

[rdd1952]

aaronc, you are going in the right direction. Keep adding ammonia daily as it drops. Nitrite processing bacteria develop much slower than the ones that process ammonia. On top of that, you are in essence adding more nitrite each time you add ammonia and it is transformed. Since you had some seed bacteria, it shouldn't take more than a week or so for the nitrite to drop. It will literally happen overnight.

 

[aaronc]

Brilliant.

Thanks for the help

Regards
Aaron

 

[aaronc]

Here is another quick question. Should I be adding new ammonia every time it gets to 0 (which is taking less than 12 hours now), or just once a day?

Ta
Aaron