Fishless Cycling

[Victora1984]

thanks found this very helpfull

 

[backtotropical]

I just found out the ceramic noodles under the filter floss are in a plastic bag. haha. How stupid do I feel?

I've never heard that one before. You live and learn.

 

[myotter]

There are threads almost daily about the proper method for fishless cycling. In actuality, a Google search will result in hundreds of links and each of those will give you slightly different instructions. I wanted to cover two of the most common ones and their advantages and disadvantages.

Let me start by saying that when you cycle a tank, you are really cycling the filter. That is where the vast majority of the nitrifying bacteria will colonize. Some bacteria are present on the tank walls, decorations, and in the substrate but for the most part they are in/on the filter. Basically, there are NO nitrifying bacteria present in the water itself.

First, a couple things that are common regardless of which method you use. Obviously, you set up the tank with clean, dechlorinated water. I believe it is best to fill the tank and let any sand/gravel dust or cloudiness settle for a few days before you add ammonia. This will prevent cloudy water from giving you a skewed reading when you test. Second, raise the water temperature to the mid to upper 80s. I have even had success with temperatures in the low 90s. The warmer water promotes bacteria growth and will speed the cycle. Also, you will need to add extra aeration via an air stone and air pump. The warmer water temperature will force the oxygen from the water so you must add aeration to replenish it.

Items Needed:

Bottle of pure ammonia. If you don't know where to find it, this thread may help you. Pure ammonia will only list ammonia and water as ingredients. Chelating agents are ok. Without going into great detail, that is simply a bonding agent that keeps the ammonia and water "mixed". If it lists dyes, fragrances or surfactants, you don't want it. If the bottle doesn't have an ingredient label, shake the bottle. If it foams, it won't work. A few air bubbles that disappear immediately are ok.
A good test master test kit. Get a good liquid master test kit. Those generally contain tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and high pH. You won't necessarily need the pH tests during the cycling process but you will later. I would also suggest getting a KH test kit too although, once again, it's not necessary for the cycling process.
A medicine dropper. Any cheap one that you get at the local drug store will do.

While you are waiting on the dust to settle and the water to clear, I suggest you do a couple things. First, test the parameters of your tap water. It is important to know the pH and KH of your tap water so you will know what fish are compatible with your pH. It is also very important to know if there is any ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in your tap water. A lot of municipal water supplies have some or all of those present and well water could also have them present. Knowing that could save you a lot of head scratching later when you have an elevated level that may be caused by your tap water rather than a problem in the tank.

You should also run a little test to determine how much ammonia to add to your tank. Since medicine droppers come in all different sizes, it's hard to say that you need X drops per gallon to get to 4 or 5 ppm to start. I have 3 different droppers for adding fertilizers and for drawing tank water for testing and there is a big difference in the size drops they dispense. Take a small bucket, one of the buckets you used to fill your tank or wash you're sand. Fill it with water and then add 2 to 4 drops of ammonia per 5 gallon of water. Swirl it around to mix it and test to see what the ammonia reading is. Continue to do this until your reading is 4 or 5 ppm. Remember how many drops of ammonia you added and then, some simple maths will tell you how much to add to your tank to get the 4 or 5 ppm required to begin cycling. You can also use a test tube to add it. The amount required will depend on the concentration of the ammonia but 1ml (about 1/5th US teaspoonful) will usually raise 5 gallon to about 5ppm.

Ok. Your tank is set up, the water has cleared, and you know how much ammonia to add. Let's get started.

"Add and Wait" Method

This is the method I have used to cycle 5 tanks (from 2.5 to 75 gallon) and it has worked perfectly. I think it is the simplest and requires the least amount of work. First add your ammonia to raise the level to 4 to 5 ppm (see ammonia calculator here at bottom of page). Now you simply wait on the ammonia to drop back to around 1 ppm. Spend the time researching the fish you like and see if they are compatible with each other, with your tap pH, tank size, etc.

Test daily to see what the ammonia reading is. There is no use to test for anything else. Nitrite and nitrate won't be present until some ammonia has processed. Ammonia will raise your pH so no use to test it either. Once you see a drop in the ammonia, test for nitrite. There should be some present. When the ammonia drops back to about near zero (usually takes about a week), add enough to raise it back to about 3 to 4 ppm and begin testing the nitrite daily.

Every time the ammonia drops back to zero, raise it back up to 3 to 4 ppm and continue to check nitrites. The nitrite reading will go off the chart. NOTE FOR API TEST KIT USERS: When you add the drops, if they immediately turn purple in the bottom of the tube, your nitrites are off the chart high. You do not need to shake the tube and wait 5 minutes. If you do, the color will turn green as the nitrites are so high that there isn't a color to measure them with. Once the ammonia is dropping from around 4 ppm back to zero in 12 hours or less you have sufficient bacteria to handle the ammonia your fish load produces. Continue to add ammonia daily as you must feed the bacteria that have formed or they will begin to die off.

The nitrite spike will generally take about twice as long to drop to zero as did the ammonia spike. The reason for this is two-fold. First, the nitrite processing bacteria just develop slower than those that process ammonia. Second, you are adding more nitrite daily (every time you add ammonia, it is transformed into nitrite raising the level a little more) as opposed to the ammonia, which you only add once at the start and then waited on it to drop to zero. During this time, you should occasionally test for nitrate too. The presence of nitrate means that nitrite is being processed, completing the nitrogen cycle. The nitrate level will also go off the chart but you will take care of that with a large water change later. It will seem like forever before the nitrite finally falls back to zero but eventually, almost overnight, it will drop and you can celebrate. You are almost there. Once the bacteria are able to process 4 or 5 ppm of ammonia back to zero ammonia and nitrite in about 10 to 12 hours. You are officially cycled.

At this point, your tank will probably look terrible with brown algae everywhere and probably cloudy water. As I mentioned, the nitrate reading will also be off the chart. Nitrates can only be removed with water changes. Do a large water change, 75 to 90 percent, turn the heat down to the level the fish you have decided on will need, and you are ready to add your fish. You can safely add your full fish load as your tank will have enough bacteria built up to handle any waste they can produce.

"Add Daily" Method

I call this the "Add Daily" method because that is what you do. The start is exactly like the other method. To begin, you add enough ammonia to raise the level to 4 or 5 ppm (see ammonia calculator here at bottom of page). The difference is that the next day and each day thereafter you add the same amount. This continues until the ammonia drops to zero. This will take much longer than the other method because of the massive amount of ammonia the tank will initially contain. It generally takes about 3 days before any bacteria begin to form and you are able to notice even a small change in the color of your tests. In the other method, on the 3rd day there will still only be about 4 or 5 ppm of ammonia in the tank. With the "Add Daily" method, there will be approximately 12 to 15 ppm on the 3rd day so you need a lot of bacteria to process all of that.

Once the ammonia finally drops back to near zero, cut the amount of ammonia you are adding daily in half. That will still be plenty to keep the bacteria already developed fed. Continue to add the ammonia daily and test for nitrites. Once the nitrite drops back to zero, do your big water change and add your fish.

Advantages & Disadvantages: As I mentioned, the cycling process will take longer using the "Add Daily" method simply because you are forcing the bacteria to process quite a bit more ammonia. The advantage of that method though is that there will be much more bacteria present at the end than in the "Add & Wait" method. If you plan to have a heavy fish load (overstock) or keep messy fish (plecos, goldfish and Oscars for example), this may be the best way for you to go.

If you plan to keep normal tropicals with normal stocking levels as I do, cycling with the "Add & Wait" method should work fine for you. It has worked well for me. Some articles I have read even stated that if the ammonia level ever goes over 6 to 8 ppm that it severely slows the process and is a waste of time and effort.

Summation: As I said to begin, these are only 2 versions of the fishless cycle. There are numerous variations on these methods. One way to speed the cycling process is to "seed" the tank with a bacteria source from an established tank. See if a friend can give you an old filter from one of their tanks or if the local fish store has some gravel, filter media or anything that will provide a bacteria source. Any bacteria source will help.

As a general rule, don't waste your time or money on "bacteria starter" products such as Cycle or Prime. The consensus is that they serve no useful purpose. The fact that they have been shipped on un-refrigerated trucks and stored in hot warehouses leads most to believe that there couldn't possibly be any live bacteria left in the bottles. One possible exception is Bio Spira. I have personally not used this product but most things I have read suggest it works IF it has been handled properly (always refrigerated). Only purchase it from a reputable source that you trust.

Regardless of which method you choose, please, for the sake of your fish, do a fishless cycle. It prevents them from having to go through all the toxins and saves you a LOT of water changes, stress and lost fish. A little patience in the beginning will pay big dividends down the road.

Edit: I said that there was no use to test the pH as it didn't matter but after more reading, I have found that isn't entirely true. The optimal pH range for nitrification is about 7.0 to 8.0. As pH gets lower and closer to 6.0, the nitrification process severely slows. Below 6.0, the bacteria basically go dormant and stop reproducing. The bacteria that are present will continue to process ammonia and nitrite but the size of the colony will not grow or will grow very slowly. So in actuallity, you do need to test pH to make sure it isn't too low.

I hope I don't sound stupid asking this question, but during all this adding of ammonia etc, are you supposed to have the filter running in the water? And if so, are you supposed to change the cartridge before adding the fish?

 

[ranjohns]

See this quote below, "NOTE FOR API TEST KIT USERS: When you add the drops, if they immediately turn purple in the bottom of the tube, your nitrites are off the chart high. "

I am 2 weeks into the "add daily" (see below) cycling of a 30 gal tank. Today, 12 hours after adding 5ml of 10% ammonia solution my readings, using an API Master Test Kit, are: ammonia = 0; nitrates, between 5 & 10 and my nitrite are to paraprhase the 2005 thread below: when I add the drops, they immediately turn purple in the bottom of my tube.

After 5 minutes the water is clear light blue in color. How should I interpret this? Are my nitrites off the chart? Or, does the 5 to 10 ppm nitrate reading indicate that my tank cycled? Should I dump the API nitrite drops? If so, any recommendations for another brand?

Thanks in advance.

Randy
Indianapolis

There are threads almost daily about the proper method for fishless cycling. In actuality, a Google search will result in hundreds of links and each of those will give you slightly different instructions. I wanted to cover two of the most common ones and their advantages and disadvantages.

Let me start by saying that when you cycle a tank, you are really cycling the filter. That is where the vast majority of the nitrifying bacteria will colonize. Some bacteria are present on the tank walls, decorations, and in the substrate but for the most part they are in/on the filter. Basically, there are NO nitrifying bacteria present in the water itself.

First, a couple things that are common regardless of which method you use. Obviously, you set up the tank with clean, dechlorinated water. I believe it is best to fill the tank and let any sand/gravel dust or cloudiness settle for a few days before you add ammonia. This will prevent cloudy water from giving you a skewed reading when you test. Second, raise the water temperature to the mid to upper 80s. I have even had success with temperatures in the low 90s. The warmer water promotes bacteria growth and will speed the cycle. Also, you will need to add extra aeration via an air stone and air pump. The warmer water temperature will force the oxygen from the water so you must add aeration to replenish it.

Items Needed:

Bottle of pure ammonia. If you don't know where to find it, this thread may help you. Pure ammonia will only list ammonia and water as ingredients. Chelating agents are ok. Without going into great detail, that is simply a bonding agent that keeps the ammonia and water "mixed". If it lists dyes, fragrances or surfactants, you don't want it. If the bottle doesn't have an ingredient label, shake the bottle. If it foams, it won't work. A few air bubbles that disappear immediately are ok.
A good test master test kit. Get a good liquid master test kit. Those generally contain tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and high pH. You won't necessarily need the pH tests during the cycling process but you will later. I would also suggest getting a KH test kit too although, once again, it's not necessary for the cycling process.
A medicine dropper. Any cheap one that you get at the local drug store will do.

While you are waiting on the dust to settle and the water to clear, I suggest you do a couple things. First, test the parameters of your tap water. It is important to know the pH and KH of your tap water so you will know what fish are compatible with your pH. It is also very important to know if there is any ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in your tap water. A lot of municipal water supplies have some or all of those present and well water could also have them present. Knowing that could save you a lot of head scratching later when you have an elevated level that may be caused by your tap water rather than a problem in the tank.

You should also run a little test to determine how much ammonia to add to your tank. Since medicine droppers come in all different sizes, it's hard to say that you need X drops per gallon to get to 4 or 5 ppm to start. I have 3 different droppers for adding fertilizers and for drawing tank water for testing and there is a big difference in the size drops they dispense. Take a small bucket, one of the buckets you used to fill your tank or wash you're sand. Fill it with water and then add 2 to 4 drops of ammonia per 5 gallon of water. Swirl it around to mix it and test to see what the ammonia reading is. Continue to do this until your reading is 4 or 5 ppm. Remember how many drops of ammonia you added and then, some simple maths will tell you how much to add to your tank to get the 4 or 5 ppm required to begin cycling. You can also use a test tube to add it. The amount required will depend on the concentration of the ammonia but 1ml (about 1/5th US teaspoonful) will usually raise 5 gallon to about 5ppm.

Ok. Your tank is set up, the water has cleared, and you know how much ammonia to add. Let's get started.

"Add and Wait" Method

This is the method I have used to cycle 5 tanks (from 2.5 to 75 gallon) and it has worked perfectly. I think it is the simplest and requires the least amount of work. First add your ammonia to raise the level to 4 to 5 ppm (see ammonia calculator here at bottom of page). Now you simply wait on the ammonia to drop back to around 1 ppm. Spend the time researching the fish you like and see if they are compatible with each other, with your tap pH, tank size, etc.

Test daily to see what the ammonia reading is. There is no use to test for anything else. Nitrite and nitrate won't be present until some ammonia has processed. Ammonia will raise your pH so no use to test it either. Once you see a drop in the ammonia, test for nitrite. There should be some present. When the ammonia drops back to about near zero (usually takes about a week), add enough to raise it back to about 3 to 4 ppm and begin testing the nitrite daily.

Every time the ammonia drops back to zero, raise it back up to 3 to 4 ppm and continue to check nitrites. The nitrite reading will go off the chart. NOTE FOR API TEST KIT USERS: When you add the drops, if they immediately turn purple in the bottom of the tube, your nitrites are off the chart high. You do not need to shake the tube and wait 5 minutes. If you do, the color will turn green as the nitrites are so high that there isn't a color to measure them with. Once the ammonia is dropping from around 4 ppm back to zero in 12 hours or less you have sufficient bacteria to handle the ammonia your fish load produces. Continue to add ammonia daily as you must feed the bacteria that have formed or they will begin to die off.

The nitrite spike will generally take about twice as long to drop to zero as did the ammonia spike. The reason for this is two-fold. First, the nitrite processing bacteria just develop slower than those that process ammonia. Second, you are adding more nitrite daily (every time you add ammonia, it is transformed into nitrite raising the level a little more) as opposed to the ammonia, which you only add once at the start and then waited on it to drop to zero. During this time, you should occasionally test for nitrate too. The presence of nitrate means that nitrite is being processed, completing the nitrogen cycle. The nitrate level will also go off the chart but you will take care of that with a large water change later. It will seem like forever before the nitrite finally falls back to zero but eventually, almost overnight, it will drop and you can celebrate. You are almost there. Once the bacteria are able to process 4 or 5 ppm of ammonia back to zero ammonia and nitrite in about 10 to 12 hours. You are officially cycled.

At this point, your tank will probably look terrible with brown algae everywhere and probably cloudy water. As I mentioned, the nitrate reading will also be off the chart. Nitrates can only be removed with water changes. Do a large water change, 75 to 90 percent, turn the heat down to the level the fish you have decided on will need, and you are ready to add your fish. You can safely add your full fish load as your tank will have enough bacteria built up to handle any waste they can produce.

"Add Daily" Method

I call this the "Add Daily" method because that is what you do. The start is exactly like the other method. To begin, you add enough ammonia to raise the level to 4 or 5 ppm (see ammonia calculator here at bottom of page). The difference is that the next day and each day thereafter you add the same amount. This continues until the ammonia drops to zero. This will take much longer than the other method because of the massive amount of ammonia the tank will initially contain. It generally takes about 3 days before any bacteria begin to form and you are able to notice even a small change in the color of your tests. In the other method, on the 3rd day there will still only be about 4 or 5 ppm of ammonia in the tank. With the "Add Daily" method, there will be approximately 12 to 15 ppm on the 3rd day so you need a lot of bacteria to process all of that.

Once the ammonia finally drops back to near zero, cut the amount of ammonia you are adding daily in half. That will still be plenty to keep the bacteria already developed fed. Continue to add the ammonia daily and test for nitrites. Once the nitrite drops back to zero, do your big water change and add your fish.

Advantages & Disadvantages: As I mentioned, the cycling process will take longer using the "Add Daily" method simply because you are forcing the bacteria to process quite a bit more ammonia. The advantage of that method though is that there will be much more bacteria present at the end than in the "Add & Wait" method. If you plan to have a heavy fish load (overstock) or keep messy fish (plecos, goldfish and Oscars for example), this may be the best way for you to go.

If you plan to keep normal tropicals with normal stocking levels as I do, cycling with the "Add & Wait" method should work fine for you. It has worked well for me. Some articles I have read even stated that if the ammonia level ever goes over 6 to 8 ppm that it severely slows the process and is a waste of time and effort.

Summation: As I said to begin, these are only 2 versions of the fishless cycle. There are numerous variations on these methods. One way to speed the cycling process is to "seed" the tank with a bacteria source from an established tank. See if a friend can give you an old filter from one of their tanks or if the local fish store has some gravel, filter media or anything that will provide a bacteria source. Any bacteria source will help.

As a general rule, don't waste your time or money on "bacteria starter" products such as Cycle or Prime. The consensus is that they serve no useful purpose. The fact that they have been shipped on un-refrigerated trucks and stored in hot warehouses leads most to believe that there couldn't possibly be any live bacteria left in the bottles. One possible exception is Bio Spira. I have personally not used this product but most things I have read suggest it works IF it has been handled properly (always refrigerated). Only purchase it from a reputable source that you trust.

Regardless of which method you choose, please, for the sake of your fish, do a fishless cycle. It prevents them from having to go through all the toxins and saves you a LOT of water changes, stress and lost fish. A little patience in the beginning will pay big dividends down the road.

Edit: I said that there was no use to test the pH as it didn't matter but after more reading, I have found that isn't entirely true. The optimal pH range for nitrification is about 7.0 to 8.0. As pH gets lower and closer to 6.0, the nitrification process severely slows. Below 6.0, the bacteria basically go dormant and stop reproducing. The bacteria that are present will continue to process ammonia and nitrite but the size of the colony will not grow or will grow very slowly. So in actuallity, you do need to test pH to make sure it isn't too low.

I hope I don't sound stupid asking this question, but during all this adding of ammonia etc, are you supposed to have the filter running in the water? And if so, are you supposed to change the cartridge before adding the fish?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Off the chart nitrites I'm afraid.

try diluting the water by a 50% water change then testing it again and you may end up with a reading on the nitrite test kit.

 

[ranjohns]

Thanks for your response. 3.5 hours after a 50% water change, I recorded the following numbers:
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 1
Nitrates 5

Should I reduce the amount of ammonia added each day to 2ml? Or, 2ml every other day? Add 2 aspirins and call in tomorrow? I think we're headed in the right direction. Please advise.

Thanks in advance.

Ranjohns
Indianapolis

set up:
30 gal freshwater tank
Marineland Penguin Power Filter 350B
Marineland Stealth Submersible Heater 150-watt
Planted - 20 plants
18 watt fluorescent lamp (high green spectrum spike)

 

[fishman3]

ok guys go easy please i am a noobie........

After having great success with a small (6-7g) tank i am hooked!! I had a real problem getting the ecology of the cold water tank correctly due to bad information from the larger stores in the uk like pets @ home. Anyway the challenge that it presented and the benefits my daughter now gets from this mini aquarium were well worth it..... so.....

I have recently purchased an aquastyle AR620 90 litre tank as a toy for myself which i have planted with approx 9 plants and 2 pieces (small pieces) of bogwood (1 with a plant growing on). I got the bogwood from my lfs direct from their tanks so as to help seed the tank filter media. The filter system is contained in the hood of the tank and has bio noodles, bio sponge and carbon and wool type material in two chambers, the water flows down through the first chamber from the power head and spray bar and up through the next chamber. Sorry if i am being too detailed, i havent even got to my question yet!!!

I have added stress coat and stress zyme to take the chlorine from the tap water and kick start the biological process (i know their are non believers in these products but i thought they carnt hurt any!!) after my tank cleared up (went cloudy for about a day or so) i have now begun the fishless cycle process as i believe it is the most humane way to go (nobody at the fish stores i have visited have recommended this btw they all seem to adopt the small hardy fish process first). I washed my cold water aquarium filter in the tank during the last water change as the ecology in my cold water tank is good and has even promoted the long fin zebra danios and my WCMM to try and spawn. (not interested in breeding just yet i may add).

Firstly i want to know if washing the filter through in my tank like this is effectively "seeding" my new filter or is it a waste of time?

secondly I'm not sure whether to use the wait method or the daily method and would like some of your thoughts. I know that this could depend on fish choices so i have put some of my initial ideas down below.

Lower layers - Corys, Amercian Flag Fish, Gobies
Middle layers - tetras (i know i need a well established ecology for these fish but i love them), torpedo tetras, dwarf gourami, guppies
Upper layers - hatchet fish and half beaks

third and finally, based on the thoughts i have of the fish i may stock (would love to have balas but i guess even if i got the small ones i would have to give them back once they had grown a little) are there any potential problems between these species.

Recommendations would also be very very welcome.

Thanks in advance for your help guys

Phil

 

[mcguina]

Hello,

I have just started a fishless cycle. I bought some ammonium chloride and it is a powder. I was wondering if this is right? Or have I bought the wrong thing? Can anyone give any advice?

Thanks

 

[rdd1952]

Have never heard that asked before but after a Google search, it appears that it will work fine. I even saw one article that said that some aquatic stores were starting to sell it for he prupose of cycling. Here is an interesting article on it's use in fishless cycling.

 

[JediWiggles]

Well written, finally some direction! I have a question though and u may have mentioned it above, I don't have time today to view the replys.

My tank has run for 3 days, a 12 gallon Eclipse with sponge and bio-wheel filter. Plants are inside, Can I add ammonia without Harming the plants are is that just silly?

If so should I remove the plants and then start the ammonia process?

Cheers

 

[fatheadminnow]

Well written, finally some direction! I have a question though and u may have mentioned it above, I don't have time today to view the replys.

My tank has run for 3 days, a 12 gallon Eclipse with sponge and bio-wheel filter. Plants are inside, Can I add ammonia without Harming the plants are is that just silly?

If so should I remove the plants and then start the ammonia process?

Cheers

There is no such thing as a silly question...lol

You will be fine with adding ammonia with plants in the tank.

After all, plants will use a little bit of ammoina, and fish produce ammonia as well, and I am assuming you are going to have fish in your tank with plants? lol Thought I would try to be funny with that....lol.

-FHM

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, agree, there is basically no harm to plants directly in a fishless cycle. The plants will be dependent on a number of things that can seem even more complicated than the fishless cycling to beginners (they need the right light, they need a carbon source to make glucose, they need macro and micro nutrients put in in the right amounts and reset at intervals so the levels don't get too high... all of which takes skill, but you gotta start somewhere! A pristine new tank is just a pretty stark place for a plant and often they starve unless the beginner learns a lot of stuff fast.)

The fishless cycle itself may benefit from the addition of a medium to small number of plants. The plants may bring some of the beneficial bacteria in on their leaves or in the water that's on them. This is not considered a significant thing (like a mature media seeding) but nonetheless every little opportunity helps in a fishless cycle. Putting a ton of plants in, as in a "planted tank" type of aquascape, is a different story and can be significantly confusing to a beginner because the "feedback" readings of the Add&Wait method will be different due to the plants absorbing significant amounts of the ammonia. Often the beginner is fooled into thinking the cycle has progressed farther than it really has.

The most significant things about plants in a fishless cycle, however, may be the high probability of brown algae. New tanks getting in loads of ammonia have a hard time escaping this and it can get all over the plants and be hard to remove. So one approach of fishless cyclers is to buy inexpensive bunches of plants like elodea and to have the possible option of throwing them away after the cycle.

[Note that we are avoiding the whole topic of what "planted tank" enthusiasts do to cycle a tank. Its usually quite different than the typical beginner commnuity tank or fish-only tanks. Sometimes called a "silent cycle," they will heavily plant a tank and then do a fish-in cycle with a very small number of fish, perhaps otos and a few tetras. The problem with this for beginners is that you really need to be an accomplished planted tank hobbyist and if the you're not and a significant fraction of the plants die, the disaster extends to messing up the cycle and killing the fish sometimes.]

In conclusion, a small to medium number of live plants during fishless cycling gets my vote for beginners trying to learn things during the setup of their first tank.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[pyrojet27]

know this may be a lot to read, but I really need HELP!!! I got 2 goldfish (1 regular orange and a white/red oranda) and got a 1 gallon open bowl. When I put the fish in the bowl, they would be lethargic and stay together on the bottom of the bowl in a corner. Within a day or two, they started moving about and showed signs of energy. They ate food and everything was fine, but they seemed to have nibbled on a little bit of "plastic plant" that I had in the bowl. I also had to clean the bowl about every 2 days because the water became cloudy, so I did 75% water replacement every 2 days and cleaned out the gravel and everything. 4 days later, I got a 10 gallon tank, with ornament, gravel, and a fluorescent light hood with a Penn-Plax Clear-Free Bubbler/Filter (Green one). Now all of this stuff I bought used and I added the 2 fish in there. They seemed to still stay together and remain calm at the bottom. And about 3 days after that, I got 4 more goldfish and added them with the existing 2. Now the older 2 fish actually started moving about and all the goldfish swim together like a pod and everything (eating, movement, etc.) is fine. The bubbler's filter insert had a lot of brownish debris built on it (seems organic) and is making my tank smell horrible. Plus i also have to do 50% water changes on my tank every 2 days now, to clean out the dirty water and poop, debris,etc. My fish, since yesterday night, have been all moving to the top of the tank frequently (it looks like they're eating the bubbles). I didn't cycle my tank and I don't know how/have the materials to do so. Some of my orange goldfish have 1-2 small patches of white that I didn't catch before. Can someone help me out PLEASE?!?!?! This is the first time I've ever had fish. (I'm getting a 20 gallon brand-new tank in 2 days and also a Marineland Penguin 100B Bio-Wheel Power Filter)...

 

[waterdrop]

Hi pyrojet27, It'll be a little easier for the members if you can start your own thread with a question like this by using the "New Topic" button right above the list of topics and to the right.

It is so unfortunate that goldfish have had the "goldfish bowl" image associated with them for many years now. The first goldfish you get requires a minimum of 30 US gallons of water volume. Each succeeding goldfish requires an additional 10 gallons of water. So the 6 you have would need a minimum of 80 US gallons (or 300 liters if that is your usual metric.)

When they are kept in a healthy environment, they can easily grow much larger than a foot long and have a very large body mass. They produce enormous amounts of waste compared to many other species and for this reason can tax even fairly large and expensive filtration systems. Often the very best advice for people in your situation is to try and find ways to re-home the goldies, sometimes to outdoor ponds that people have. If often comes as a surprise to people that keeping small tropical fish can be easier and less expensive than goldfish!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Joshwainwright]

If I completely restart my tank or start a new one, will i have to cycle it all over again?