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Fishless Cycling

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You're definitely not the only one. The smell right now is ammonia fumes, which is why it smells like cat pee (I've heard it compared to a dirty hamster cage, too). Once ammonia is processing, it'll change. The "earthy" smell often described in tanks is for cycled tanks, and comes from the nitrate. It does smell like black dirt, which you may or may not find pleasant. You'll get used to it working with your tank, though, and even if you don't like it initially, you'll learn to.

Remember the current smell, though. If water quality slips off base, you can learn to catch the smell of it in the water. I even smell LFS tanks when considering new fish - people look at me like I'm nuts, but it does work as a quick and dirty gauge of water quality.

If you think it smells bad, imagine what happens to people who use rotting cocktail shrimp to cycle. Or worse yet, I've heard at least one case of somebody using their own urine as an ammonia source. I'd imagine that really DOES smell like a dirty toilet.
 
The smell has improved a good bit over the last few days. So glad for that. Good advice to make note of the smell and remember it for the future. Thanks!

I'm sure my cats would love the dead shrimp cycle....think I'll pass! :D

I'm a week into my fishless cycle as of today. Amazing how when you go to lfs, even really nice ones, they think you are completely out of your mind for doing it this way. I've been picking up pieces of equipment here and there and always end up chatting to someone who works there. When I tell them I'm not ready for the fish yet, and why, they just get this 'look' on their face. :p
 
ok I have read the fishless cycle now I have a question - (I will start by appologising if it has already been asked but I can't wade through 33 pages!)

Anyway, once a large tank has been cycled, is it assumed you will load the tank near to it's maximum in order to maintain bacterial levels?
What if I want to add a handful of fish at first does this mean bacterial levels will drop to a smaller level and does this matter as long as I make small additions from then on?
 
Generally after a fishless cycle it's safe to stock to 1 inch per gallon. If you only stock half of that, that's fine, but there will be some bacteria loss over the following days. Slow increasing from there is fine.

I prefer to get the "bulk" shoaling fish in first, and slowly add individual or pair fish as I find ones I like.
 
Yup remember cycling is a supply and demand thing, if you cycle to 5ppm then you'll have enough bacteria to handle 5ppm, if you then add 2ppm's worth of fish after a week or so you'd only have enough bacteria to handle 2ppm of ammonia, if you then added the other 3ppm worth of fish you'd have a mini cycle while the filter catches up.

if you want to just stock a few fish after the cycle then it's fine to do so, but you must build up slowly from that point only adding a few fish at any time and leaving it a good few weeks between any new additions. :good:
 
started my cycle lastnight. i added around 3.5ml of ammonia to my 75l tank and after an our my ammonia reading was only around 1ppm. i added more to get it up to around 4ppm and im leving it to go down. i had been using interpet number 14 for 2 weeks (filter start) to boost the bacteria but was told bottled producys seldom work so the fishless cycle is a fail safe but will the filter start interfere with how long the cycle should take?

cheers
 
Hi, am a newbie to site and to tropical fish. Like site and am enjoying reading all about fishless cycles.
Have bought an Elite 60litre tank, came with heater and filter. Have washed gravel, soaked bog wood, filled up tank, added aqua plus (and cycle but have discovered no good reading through site), filter and heater running. Water bit cloudy.

I will go to shops tomorrow to buy ammonia and water test kits, will start fishless cycle, be silly not to.

Air stone and air pump - do you take these out after running cycle? And are you meant to clean tank walls with special algae scraper while cycling, or does that defeat object?

Am I best to wait for my current water to clear before adding ammonia?

Thanks for any help in advance - I am a bit daunted by it all, but am a perfectionist so want to get it right for my future fish.

:rolleyes:
 
Hi, am a newbie to site and to tropical fish. Like site and am enjoying reading all about fishless cycles.
Have bought an Elite 60litre tank, came with heater and filter. Have washed gravel, soaked bog wood, filled up tank, added aqua plus (and cycle but have discovered no good reading through site), filter and heater running. Water bit cloudy.

I will go to shops tomorrow to buy ammonia and water test kits, will start fishless cycle, be silly not to.

Air stone and air pump - do you take these out after running cycle? And are you meant to clean tank walls with special algae scraper while cycling, or does that defeat object?

Am I best to wait for my current water to clear before adding ammonia?

Thanks for any help in advance - I am a bit daunted by it all, but am a perfectionist so want to get it right for my future fish.

:rolleyes:
Glad to hear you will fishless cycle Kate, the pump and airstone are optional following the cycling, I took mine out. Its usually a trade off between whether its too much noise for your location or whether its not and you like the look, and its fine for decoration. Cleaning tank wall algae is also optional. Algae is not harmful to fish, but obviously blocks your view or is not the look you want. Be very careful not to scratch your glass with scrapers (coarse sponge usually works fine on the initial brown algae you get during cycling. Cloudy water is normal in a new tank and should not deter you from starting your fishless cycle, it will clear eventually.

One thing you might want to do -before- your cycle is to discuss your media choices in the filter. Carbon is often included by manufacturers but is not needed on a regular basis. That space might be better used by additional biomedia (ceramic rings, ceramic pebbles or sponges.) If you can find someone willing to donate mature media, this is of course the time for it.

Once you get your testing kit, I suggest you start up a thread in the main "New to the Hobby" section since usually we try to avoid long discussions tagged to the pinned articles like this one.

Welcome to TFF! ~~waterdrop~~
 
There are threads almost daily about the proper method for fishless cycling. In actuality, a Google search will result in hundreds of links and each of those will give you slightly different instructions. I wanted to cover two of the most common ones and their advantages and disadvantages.

Let me start by saying that when you cycle a tank, you are really cycling the filter. That is where the vast majority of the nitrifying bacteria will colonize. Some bacteria are present on the tank walls, decorations, and in the substrate but for the most part they are in/on the filter. Basically, there are NO nitrifying bacteria present in the water itself.

First, a couple things that are common regardless of which method you use. Obviously, you set up the tank with clean, dechlorinated water. I believe it is best to fill the tank and let any sand/gravel dust or cloudiness settle for a few days before you add ammonia. This will prevent cloudy water from giving you a skewed reading when you test. Second, raise the water temperature to the mid to upper 80s. I have even had success with temperatures in the low 90s. The warmer water promotes bacteria growth and will speed the cycle. Also, you will need to add extra aeration via an air stone and air pump. The warmer water temperature will force the oxygen from the water so you must add aeration to replenish it.

Items Needed:

Bottle of pure ammonia. If you don't know where to find it, this thread may help you. Pure ammonia will only list ammonia and water as ingredients. Chelating agents are ok. Without going into great detail, that is simply a bonding agent that keeps the ammonia and water "mixed". If it lists dyes, fragrances or surfactants, you don't want it. If the bottle doesn't have an ingredient label, shake the bottle. If it foams, it won't work. A few air bubbles that disappear immediately are ok.
A good test master test kit. Get a good liquid master test kit. Those generally contain tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and high pH. You won't necessarily need the pH tests during the cycling process but you will later. I would also suggest getting a KH test kit too although, once again, it's not necessary for the cycling process.
A medicine dropper. Any cheap one that you get at the local drug store will do.

While you are waiting on the dust to settle and the water to clear, I suggest you do a couple things. First, test the parameters of your tap water. It is important to know the pH and KH of your tap water so you will know what fish are compatible with your pH. It is also very important to know if there is any ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in your tap water. A lot of municipal water supplies have some or all of those present and well water could also have them present. Knowing that could save you a lot of head scratching later when you have an elevated level that may be caused by your tap water rather than a problem in the tank.

You should also run a little test to determine how much ammonia to add to your tank. Since medicine droppers come in all different sizes, it's hard to say that you need X drops per gallon to get to 4 or 5 ppm to start. I have 3 different droppers for adding fertilizers and for drawing tank water for testing and there is a big difference in the size drops they dispense. Take a small bucket, one of the buckets you used to fill your tank or wash you're sand. Fill it with water and then add 2 to 4 drops of ammonia per 5 gallon of water. Swirl it around to mix it and test to see what the ammonia reading is. Continue to do this until your reading is 4 or 5 ppm. Remember how many drops of ammonia you added and then, some simple maths will tell you how much to add to your tank to get the 4 or 5 ppm required to begin cycling. You can also use a test tube to add it. The amount required will depend on the concentration of the ammonia but 1ml (about 1/5th US teaspoonful) will usually raise 5 gallon to about 5ppm.

Ok. Your tank is set up, the water has cleared, and you know how much ammonia to add. Let's get started.

"Add and Wait" Method

This is the method I have used to cycle 5 tanks (from 2.5 to 75 gallon) and it has worked perfectly. I think it is the simplest and requires the least amount of work. First add your ammonia to raise the level to 4 to 5 ppm (see ammonia calculator here at bottom of page). Now you simply wait on the ammonia to drop back to around 1 ppm. Spend the time researching the fish you like and see if they are compatible with each other, with your tap pH, tank size, etc.

Test daily to see what the ammonia reading is. There is no use to test for anything else. Nitrite and nitrate won't be present until some ammonia has processed. Ammonia will raise your pH so no use to test it either. Once you see a drop in the ammonia, test for nitrite. There should be some present. When the ammonia drops back to about near zero (usually takes about a week), add enough to raise it back to about 3 to 4 ppm and begin testing the nitrite daily.

Every time the ammonia drops back to zero, raise it back up to 3 to 4 ppm and continue to check nitrites. The nitrite reading will go off the chart. NOTE FOR API TEST KIT USERS: When you add the drops, if they immediately turn purple in the bottom of the tube, your nitrites are off the chart high. You do not need to shake the tube and wait 5 minutes. If you do, the color will turn green as the nitrites are so high that there isn't a color to measure them with. Once the ammonia is dropping from around 4 ppm back to zero in 12 hours or less you have sufficient bacteria to handle the ammonia your fish load produces. Continue to add ammonia daily as you must feed the bacteria that have formed or they will begin to die off.

The nitrite spike will generally take about twice as long to drop to zero as did the ammonia spike. The reason for this is two-fold. First, the nitrite processing bacteria just develop slower than those that process ammonia. Second, you are adding more nitrite daily (every time you add ammonia, it is transformed into nitrite raising the level a little more) as opposed to the ammonia, which you only add once at the start and then waited on it to drop to zero. During this time, you should occasionally test for nitrate too. The presence of nitrate means that nitrite is being processed, completing the nitrogen cycle. The nitrate level will also go off the chart but you will take care of that with a large water change later. It will seem like forever before the nitrite finally falls back to zero but eventually, almost overnight, it will drop and you can celebrate. You are almost there. Once the bacteria are able to process 4 or 5 ppm of ammonia back to zero ammonia and nitrite in about 10 to 12 hours. You are officially cycled.

At this point, your tank will probably look terrible with brown algae everywhere and probably cloudy water. As I mentioned, the nitrate reading will also be off the chart. Nitrates can only be removed with water changes. Do a large water change, 75 to 90 percent, turn the heat down to the level the fish you have decided on will need, and you are ready to add your fish. You can safely add your full fish load as your tank will have enough bacteria built up to handle any waste they can produce.

"Add Daily" Method

I call this the "Add Daily" method because that is what you do. The start is exactly like the other method. To begin, you add enough ammonia to raise the level to 4 or 5 ppm (see ammonia calculator here at bottom of page). The difference is that the next day and each day thereafter you add the same amount. This continues until the ammonia drops to zero. This will take much longer than the other method because of the massive amount of ammonia the tank will initially contain. It generally takes about 3 days before any bacteria begin to form and you are able to notice even a small change in the color of your tests. In the other method, on the 3rd day there will still only be about 4 or 5 ppm of ammonia in the tank. With the "Add Daily" method, there will be approximately 12 to 15 ppm on the 3rd day so you need a lot of bacteria to process all of that.

Once the ammonia finally drops back to near zero, cut the amount of ammonia you are adding daily in half. That will still be plenty to keep the bacteria already developed fed. Continue to add the ammonia daily and test for nitrites. Once the nitrite drops back to zero, do your big water change and add your fish.

Advantages & Disadvantages: As I mentioned, the cycling process will take longer using the "Add Daily" method simply because you are forcing the bacteria to process quite a bit more ammonia. The advantage of that method though is that there will be much more bacteria present at the end than in the "Add & Wait" method. If you plan to have a heavy fish load (overstock) or keep messy fish (plecos, goldfish and Oscars for example), this may be the best way for you to go.

If you plan to keep normal tropicals with normal stocking levels as I do, cycling with the "Add & Wait" method should work fine for you. It has worked well for me. Some articles I have read even stated that if the ammonia level ever goes over 6 to 8 ppm that it severely slows the process and is a waste of time and effort.

Summation: As I said to begin, these are only 2 versions of the fishless cycle. There are numerous variations on these methods. One way to speed the cycling process is to "seed" the tank with a bacteria source from an established tank. See if a friend can give you an old filter from one of their tanks or if the local fish store has some gravel, filter media or anything that will provide a bacteria source. Any bacteria source will help.

As a general rule, don't waste your time or money on "bacteria starter" products such as Cycle or Prime. The consensus is that they serve no useful purpose. The fact that they have been shipped on un-refrigerated trucks and stored in hot warehouses leads most to believe that there couldn't possibly be any live bacteria left in the bottles. One possible exception is Bio Spira. I have personally not used this product but most things I have read suggest it works IF it has been handled properly (always refrigerated). Only purchase it from a reputable source that you trust.

Regardless of which method you choose, please, for the sake of your fish, do a fishless cycle. It prevents them from having to go through all the toxins and saves you a LOT of water changes, stress and lost fish. A little patience in the beginning will pay big dividends down the road.

Edit: I said that there was no use to test the pH as it didn't matter but after more reading, I have found that isn't entirely true. The optimal pH range for nitrification is about 7.0 to 8.0. As pH gets lower and closer to 6.0, the nitrification process severely slows. Below 6.0, the bacteria basically go dormant and stop reproducing. The bacteria that are present will continue to process ammonia and nitrite but the size of the colony will not grow or will grow very slowly. So in actuallity, you do need to test pH to make sure it isn't too low.

Hi, just a ridiculous question - am trying to work out amonnia quantity, the thread says 'Fill bucket with water and then add 2 to 4 drops of ammonia per 5 gallon of water' - except my bucket only holds 3 gallons / 4 litres. If I fill it up to 2and a half gallons, do I only need 1-2 drops of ammonia, or is the principle still the same? Never was good at science at school. Have got an Elite 60 litre tank, not sure how many gallons 60 litres equates to. Any help would be great, thanks.
 
Hi, been doing the fishless cycle for sixteen days now, the ammonia which i add each morning is being processed to 0 overnight, the nitrite continues to be off the chart i.e. changing to purple as soon as i add the drops, but the nitrate continues to stay at 5. Is this normal ? and if so, is it because the nitrate isn't processing the nitrite, but once it does the nitrite will fall as the the nitrate rises. thanks in advance for any advice, Alan
 
Right, this is normal. You have progressed to the second phase of fishless cycling, the one we often call the "nitrite spike" phase. Your A-Bac population is large enough to process ammonia into a lot of nitrite(NO2), but your N-Bac population is not large enough (they grow slower) to process that much nitrite(NO2) into nitrate(NO3) yet. Plus, the nitrate(NO3) tests are not as sensitive and are less consistent in their results, so we advise not worrying about NO3 results too much.

At this stage of your fishless cycle, you can actually drop back to only adding, say, 3ppm of ammonia if you want too, as you are producing huge amounts of NO2. Later, when the N-Bacs are processing NO2 down to zero in less than 24 hours, you can ease that amount back up to 5ppm, so you'll have them processing a big 5ppm level for the finish.

You're doing great, just takes lots of patience. Oh, and usually its better to post in the actual forum, not the pinned article.

~~waterdrop~~
 
I tried to seed my new tank from an old one but since reading this thread ive realised how stupid I have been. My nightmare is as follows.

Got a new tank which is for quarantine. I filled the new 28 litre tank half full from my 350lt. Then filled buckets from the tap adding tapsafe, giving it a stir and then putting it into the new tank so it doesnt kill the bacteria in the water (before learning bacteria doesnt stay in water only filter media). I then put some dead leaves and an ornament from the old into the new as I thought they would have bacteria on. I then realised it might still take a fortnight so... as I use them ceramic noodles and stones and half floss for the old tank and only floss for the new, I just placed some of the stones on top of the floss, the water does run through it but I thought its not going to transfer loads of bacteria quickly. So I put the heater upto 28 to increase bacteria activity. I then got more impatient and took the floss out of the 350litre tank, cleaned it in a bucket of water from the 350litre tank, put the bucket from the clean into the new one. I thought its now got a massive hit of everything. That was this morning.

My readings at the minute are

Ammonia ppm is between 0.25 and 0.5
Nitrite is between 0.25 and 0.5
Nitrate is between is between 40-60

I really don't know when its going to be ready now. I wish I wasnt so hungover this last 2 days as I may have been thinking a bit straighter.

Anyone got any tips now? The reason for the urgency is my mate gave me some silver dollars and they seem to have fin rot so I wanted to quarantine them.

Thanks
 
16 days!? jeez thats fast. im on my third week of fishless cycle and im still no where near that. i added 4pp of ammonia to my 75l tank and it took a week and a half to get it down to just above 0, i added another 4 ppm and it took a week to get down to 1 and didnt shift after that, so after a few days i brought that back up till 4ppm the other earlier this week and its still only clearing the ammonia very slowly. i dont have a clue whats wrong :/
 
I just found out the ceramic noodles under the filter floss are in a plastic bag. haha. How stupid do I feel? :lol:
 
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