Fishless Cycling Stalled And Don't Know Why!

[JALouis]

HI,

I'm trying to fishless cycle a new 55 gallon tank. The tank was set up and I found pure ammonia. I started adding the ammonia to get it up to 4ppm. After 2 weeks the ammonia finally started moving . When it hit 1 I added more to bring it back up to 4ppm. At one point I did see a very small amount of nitrites but now they've disappeared and it's back down to zero. I have not seen any nitrates yet either. After an additional 2 or 3 weeks (I've lost an accurate count now), it still takes 48 hours for the ammonia to drop back to 1. It takes about 8-12 hours to drop from 4 to about 2ppm but then it takes the remainder to get to 1. Anyone have any ideas as to what is happening. Is it just slow to produce enough bacteria? I do not have access to a mature tank to seed the tank. Would I be better off letting the ammonia drop to .25ppm or so and then put some fish in the tank?

Any advice would be helpful.

Thank you!

 

[fatheadminnow]

First of all, to TFF!

No, do not add fish until the cycle is complete.

We need to know what your pH is? As a low pH, 6.6 and lower, can slow down, or even stall a cycle completely.

What you can do in the meantime is do a large water change, 50% or more. This will bring you pH back up if it is low, and give a kick start to your cycle again.

Just test your pH and post on here what it is.

And you are using the 9.5% ammonia solution correct?

-FHM

 

[Amunet]

Ditto what fatheadminnow has already said.
I would take a pH reading and see where it's at. We had a problem with out tanks not cycling and turned out that our pH get below a 6.0 reading and it was stalling the cycling process.

 

[paulbr1]

Another check for you, I am going through a Fishless Cycle and am running low on Ammonia - went back to Homebase to buy another bottle but thought I would check before I bought, so I gave it good shake and bubbles left behind - so I didn't buy it, it had the same label and listed ingredients ie 9.5% Ammonia but no good for a fishless cycle!! as it really slow things down or stop it altogether.

Sorry to go on but have you checked your ammonia is ok ie. shake it good - if there are bubbles for more than a few seconds don't use it, if you shake and any bubbles dissapear within a few seconds it should be ok.

The manufacturers seem to sometimes add perfumes or surfactants to these products without listing them and it doesn't work for us.

Paul.

 

[JALouis]

The ammonia is pure ammonia. There are no bubbles when you shake the bottle. I'm not sure what the concentration is however. I will check the PH today and get back to everyone about the level. This morning I checked the ammonia and it hasn't moved. It's been passed the 48 hour mark when when it usually drops to 1.

I hope there is a solution to a low ph level.

Thank you for your help.

Jennifer

 

[pammy172]

Jennifer - hi - there is a solution to low PH but it would help to know where you are based, ie UK or USA so we can advise you what to use etc. If in the UK then a teaspoon of Bicarbonate of Soda will boost your ph - but you need to test what's coming out of your tap too in case you have low ph there, as that would indicate a different problem with a different solution.

If your ph from your tap is fine then bicarb will help keep it steady when cycling, but do come back first before you go dumping it in. Too much bicarb creates it's own problems fronm the resultant high ph. Ph often falls at night so a morning reading can be much lower, so an afternoon/evening reading is liekly to be more indicative of your actual ph.

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Jennifer and wecome to TFF!

Yes, knowing the pH will be quite important and we'd also like to know the tank temperature and tap water stats. It should be hard to lose track of the time you've been fishless cycling as our normal recommendations are to keep a logbook with daily entries of your ammonia adds, and of course of your twice daily ammonia, nitrite(NO2) and pH readings with the occasional nitrate(NO3) reading. We'd also like to know your exact test kit and whether you are following instructions on using it.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[JALouis]

Hello again Everyone.

Let me first say Thank you again for all your help. I was starting to think the fishless cycling wasn't going to work. Hopefully I will have answered all the questions. If I missed one, let me know and I'll get the answer. I went home today did all the tests using the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. Here's what I've found:

Tank environment
Temperature: 85.8
Ammonia: still between 1 and 2 ppm (hasn't gotten any lower in about 2 days or so).
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
PH: about 6- my test kit only goes down to six so it might even be a little lower. This must be the culprit.

Tap Water
PH: between 7.2 and 7.6

Please let me know how I should correct the PH in the tank (do I need a water change, what to add, how much or how do I tell when enough is enough, where should I keep the PH during cycling).
Will this be a continuing issue even when I put fish in? I just want to know so I don't think something is going wrong with the tank and I make sure to keep an eye on it when I do put fish in.

Oh, lastly, I am in the US.

Thank you all again.

Jennifer

 

[fatheadminnow]

Well, it is safe to say that your cycle has stalled due to the low level of pH. A pH of 8.0 is probably going to allow beneficial bacteria to colonize the fastest, but in your case, having a tap water pH reading of 7.2 and 7.6 is really good.

What you want to do right now is do at least a 50% water change asap! I would do little more than that if you can. The more water you are changing out, the closer the pH will be to your tap water pH reading.

After you pH is back up to your tap water reading, try not to let it drop below 6.6. At 6.6 a cycle is really going to slow down, and any lower, like 6 in your case, the beneficial bacteria in your filter are going to be in a dormant state (not processing anything ammonia or nitrite).

After your cycle is complete, your pH should be fine since you will be doing weekly water changes.

So right now do at least a 50% water change, and if you can I would do a up near a 90%. This will bring you pH back up, and give your cycle a "kick" to get back underway.

EDIT: I would also lower the temp to 84 degrees F.

-FHM

 

[drobbyb]

Well, it is safe to say that your cycle has stalled due to the low level of pH. A pH of 8.0 is probably going to allow beneficial bacteria to colonize the fastest, but in your case, having a tap water pH reading of 7.2 and 7.6 is really good.

What you want to do right now is do at least a 50% water change asap! I would do little more than that if you can. The more water you are changing out, the closer the pH will be to your tap water pH reading.

After you pH is back up to your tap water reading, try not to let it drop below 6.6. At 6.6 a cycle is really going to slow down, and any lower, like 6 in your case, the beneficial bacteria in your filter are going to be in a dormant state (not processing anything ammonia or nitrite).

After your cycle is complete, your pH should be fine since you will be doing weekly water changes.

So right now do at least a 50% water change, and if you can I would do a up near a 90%. This will bring you pH back up, and give your cycle a "kick" to get back underway.

EDIT: I would also lower the temp to 84 degrees F.

-FHM

Agree with FHM. Waterchanges are going to be the best solution (and they don't send you to the store if you don't already have baking soda!) It's going to take a few waterchanges if you don't take enough of the water out. Without fish in the tank you aren't limited to smaller waterchanges and can safely take out as much as you can.

Don't forget to add the ammonia to the new water!

 

[waterdrop]

Completely agree with FHM and Robby, you've just had a simple pH slowdown, its just ashame you didn't know to watch for it earlier as you have pretty good pH in your tap water.

As Robby said, there's basically no meaning to "percentage" water changes during fishless cycling (percentages are all about protecting fish from something!) But there is a mechanical factor. Often I think the depth of your filter intake pipe inlet is the limiting thing. If its down near the bottom, near the substrate, you can do about a 90% water change without the bother of turning off your filter! On the other hand, if your filter is easy to turn off and on (HOB or auto-priming etc.) then its no bother to turn it off anyway. If it -is- a bother and your intake pipe(s) are short, then several 50% changes is going to be even more effective in a complete water changeout. So its whatever works in your particular tank layout.

And then, to repeat Robby again, don't forget to recharge your ammonia up to 5ppm as usual for this stage of fishless.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[JALouis]

Thank you to all of you. I will do the water change and make sure the ammonia stays up at 4-5ppm. Now that I know to watch for the PH I will surely do that as I check the ammonia levels each day.

I'll let you know how it all works out.

Since I've gotten such great help on this, let me ask one more question. Once I see nitrites do I lower the amount of ammonia I'm putting in or do I keep it up at 4ppm?

I'm determined to cycle the tank this way. I'm not ready to give up on this process.

Thanks again for all your advice and help.

Jennifer

 

[Amunet]

Once you see nitrites, you still keep the ammonia lvls at 4ppm or whatever you have them at.

 

[JALouis]

HI again,

I did about a 80-90% water change last night and added ammonia back up to 4-5ppm. The PH level of the tank was now close to 7. Approximately how long will it take to get the cycle started again? Should I see some shortening of the time for the ammonia to drop within a week or two or longer?

Thanks,
Jennifer

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Depends how long the pH was down that low for really, could be just a few days maybe a week or so. just keep monitoring and hope it picks back up.

Just to answer a query above that I don't think was covered, you asked if this would affect the tank when fish are in - no it won't. It's just the high levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate when you're doing a fishless cycle that drive down the pH, in the vast majority of cases once the cycle is done and you're into 'normal' running there won't be an issue. Just keep an eye on the pH once you have fish in, if it's still dropping down then let us know adn we'll help yuo decide what to do.