Fish keep dying

[outofwater]

They are the rats of community aquariums

I thought that honor went to goldfish

 

[Uberhoust]

I discussed this exact issue--reducing nitrate slowly or rapidly--with Neale Monks after it was raised in a thread last year.

No worries for me on your statement regarding Nitrate. My information is from old sources and I am unsure as to where the authors got their information.

 

[Oblio]

No worries for me on your statement regarding Nitrate. My information is from old sources and I am unsure as to where the authors got their information.

Same here, not sure where I heard it, or how old exactly, or if it was true, which is why I posed it as a question. Wouldn't be the first time 'accepted truths' were false.

 

[itiwhetu]

Very inaccurate and misleading. It depends upon the level of chlorine, and the exposure time, and the temperature, and even pH ... but chlorine and chloramine will not kill all the nitrifying bacteria according to scientific studies performed on municipal tap water with both "disinfectants" present. More than half of the initial bacteria remained following treatment.

When we set up a new tank, we "cycle" it and this takes anywhere from two to eight weeks normally. Many do not "seed" the tank with existing filter bacteria, but just rely on the nitrifying bacteria appearing and multiplying. Where do these bacteria come from, if not the chlorinated tap water? They are not airborne, that is now understood. They are present in the chlorinated tap water in sufficient numbers to colonize the filter media and multiply when they have food (ammonia, or nitrite).

I have for some 30 years rinsed my sponge filters and canister filter media under the tap. Admittedly, I have live plants (including floating) in my tanks so these on their own will easily deal with ammonia from the fish. But you are not going to kill off all the bacteria by rinsing the filter under the tap. Though I would suggest that beginners initially can use a bucket of tank water just as a cautionary measure; once you get the hang of things, the risk is gone.

If anyone wants to see the paper, here is the link (it is available free):

Comparison of the microbiomes of two drinking water distribution systems—with and without residual chloramine disinfection - Microbiome

Background Residual disinfection is often used to suppress biological growth in drinking water distribution systems (DWDSs), but not without undesirable side effects. In this study, water-main biofilms, drinking water, and bacteria under corrosion tubercles were analyzed from a chloraminated...

microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com

So, Chlorine and Chloramine doesn't kill bacteria why do the municipal water authorities put it in the water supply.

 

[Byron]

So, Chlorine and Chloramine doesn't kill bacteria why do the municipal water authorities put it in the water supply.

That is a very good question. It is known that the strength of the chlorine/chloramine, the exposure time, the temperature and pH all affect the efficacy of chlorine/chloramine, and the results of the study showed that some of the initial bacteria (including the nitrifiers) was killed, but more than half was not. Interestingly, and of far more serious concern for human health...the study also found that Mycobacterium was also not killed by chlorine/chloramine. This is of course the bacteria of fish TB, which can be passed to humans.

This is probably another case of something that initially was believed to be effective though with no actual study proof, continuing to be used. Or the bacteria may have become more resistant, as we know from other medical science happens which is why one should never use antibiotics without very good reason. Chloramine is now being used in many areas because chlorine was found to dissipate out of the water even as it flows through the pipework from reservoir to homes, and chloramine binds the chlorine to ammonia which makes it more effective. But clearly not 100%.

 

[Michaela30]

So my new testing kit came today and these are the results I did a 50% water change last night too

That may be the cause of the high nitrate, depending on just how many fish are in there. Nitrate is the end point of the nitrogen cycle in the vast majority of aquariums, and the only way to remove it is by water changes. Most of do at least 50% a week.

Other causes of high nitrate include -
being overstocked (lots of fish make lots of ammonia which is turned into a lot of nitrate)
overfeeding (uneaten food decomposes to make lots of ammonia which is turned into lots of nitrate)
dead fish not being removed (dead fish decompose to make lots of ammonia etc etc)

 

[Slaphppy7]

So my new testing kit came today and these are the results I did a 50% water change last night too

Looking good....water conditioner?

 

[Colin_T]

Hi i don't have any pictures of the plants but the fish I've had are guppys platies and neon tetras that's it the plants were for beginners on the website. My fish had no symptoms I'm just finding them dead that's it and no this has been happening on and of since the beginning of September time but everything seemed fine in December water parameters etc so I brought 6 more fish 4 of which have died

There is something in the tank that is poisoning them.
Is there any driftwood in the tank?
If yes, then remove it and do a big water change every day for a week. Then monitor the fish over the next month. Keep the driftwood out during this time.

If the nitrates are 100ppm, get them down too because they can kill fish at that level.

 

[Michaela30]

There is something in the tank that is poisoning them.
Is there any driftwood in the tank?
If yes, then remove it and do a big water change every day for a week. Then monitor the fish over the next month. Keep the driftwood out during this time.

If the nitrates are 100ppm, get them down too because they can kill fish at that level.

I've just posted new test results there's no driftwood in my tank and my nitrates are down too 30ppm

 

[Michaela30]

Looking good....water conditioner?

Is the pH OK at 7.4?
And I've just ordered some api water conditioner I've been using aqua safe so for now I've had to use that until the api one is delivered

 

[Byron]

I've just posted new test results there's no driftwood in my tank and my nitrates are down too 30ppm

You want nitrates much lower, as @Essjay and others have mentioned previously in this thread. As the tap water tests zero for nitrate (reported earlier) then the nitrates are all occurring from the biological processes in the aquarium, and that should be easy to remedy. More water changes. Not overstocking, not overfeeding, and live plants all help, but water changes must be increased (volume more than frequency) to get things in balance.

The pH at 7.4 is fine for the fish previously mentioned (post #1).

Nitrate is not likely the direct cause of the fish deaths, but as I tried to explain previously, it weakens them so they are less able to deal with other issues that might now kill them.

 

[Michaela30]

You want nitrates much lower, as @Essjay and others have mentioned previously in this thread. As the tap water tests zero for nitrate (reported earlier) then the nitrates are all occurring from the biological processes in the aquarium, and that should be easy to remedy. More water changes. Not overstocking, not overfeeding, and live plants all help, but water changes must be increased (volume more than frequency) to get things in balance.

The pH at 7.4 is fine for the fish previously mentioned (post #1).

Nitrate is not likely the direct cause of the fish deaths, but as I tried to explain previously, it weakens them so they are less able to deal with other issues that might now kill them.

I've just tested my tap water and it's no longer showing as zero its now showing as what looks like 20 ppm so my old testing strips must have been rubbish so my tank is showing slightly more then my tap water, does this mean its still to do with my tank not my tap water?

I usually do a 25% water change but last night i did a 50% change fish definitely seem happier, do I just stick with weekly 50%.

Also live plants any you recommend getting at all? I have a gravel bottom if that makes any difference.

sorry for all the questions I've just spent alot of money on this fish tank including fish so want to get this right thanks for everyone's advice so far

 

[connorlindeman]

I usually do a 25% water change but last night i did a 50% change fish definitely seem happier, do I just stick with weekly 50%.

I do 50% twice weekly. There's no such thing as too much clean water!

 

[Oblio]

I've just tested my tap water and it's no longer showing as zero its now showing as what looks like 20 ppm so my old testing strips must have been rubbish so my tank is showing slightly more then my tap water, does this mean its still to do with my tank not my tap water?

Both - Your 20 ppm tap water mixed (at 50%) with 30 ppm tank will give you 25 ppm. The best you could hope for, after an infinite number of 50% water changes is 20 ppm. This assumes no plants. I would look into perhaps some emmersed Pothos or Bamboo to help bring down your nitrates.

Alternative Nitrate Reduction Method$

I had the good fortune of limited access to an ichthyologist and marine biologist who operate an LFS here in Southern California and work at an aquarium in San Diego. We began what became almost a full year of informal but largely quantified gatherings of data on nitrate reduction techniques and...

www.fishforums.net

 

[Michaela30]

Both - Your 20 ppm tap water mixed (at 50%) with 30 ppm tank will give you 25 ppm. The best you could hope for, after an infinite number of 50% water changes is 20 ppm. This assumes no plants. I would look into perhaps some emmersed Pothos or Bamboo to help bring down your nitrates.

Alternative Nitrate Reduction Method$

I had the good fortune of limited access to an ichthyologist and marine biologist who operate an LFS here in Southern California and work at an aquarium in San Diego. We began what became almost a full year of informal but largely quantified gatherings of data on nitrate reduction techniques and...

www.fishforums.net

Perfect thank you so much