Fish Dying -help

[Athena]

Test before and it will give you an idea of how well your filter bacteria are working. Make a note of the results and the date/time. If you also test a few hours afterwards and note down the results, you will have an idea of what impact that water change had on the tank environment (i.e. how much of the ammonia/nitrite/nitrates it removed).

It's a difficult situation to be in when you have fish in an uncycled tank - you get caught in a bit of a catch 22 situation to be honest. We know that if you have a lot of fish in an uncycled tank there will no doubt be levels of ammonia present, which is harmful (deadly) to the fish, so we try to remove the ammonia through water changes.

But, in order for a filter to cycle properly it needs...ammonia - so removing it all doesn't give the bacteria much of an opportunity to grow. It feeds off ammonia so removing it's food source will starve the colony. You end up getting nowhere fast, unfortunately, and it is a slow, long-winded process to reach the stage where the filter has enough supply of bacteria to handle the bioload in the tank.

It's just a case of being very patient and stringent with your tank maintenance and testing for now.

Regards - Athena

 

[Ozzy Ozborne]

thanks.............i thought this was going to be an easy enjoyable ,relaxing hobby but its not!
Just another question..i have not touched the filter since it was set up 4 weeks ago..it came with the jewell 180 tank
Do i leave it alone or clean with the tank water i take out .....if so how many times a week etc?

ta

 

[oscars r ace]

you only wash the filter media out when you notice the flow of water is reduced. this isn't a weekly thing more monthy or bi-monthly.

it is a relaxing hobby... once the initial problems are sorted out. once you learn what to do and why you do it, which i find an enjoyable part aswell, and you don't have to do the same volume of water changes etc and the tank is sorted out you will find it a lot more enjoyable.

can't say ive had any problems with the nutrafin kit, although the only time it's in daylight is when i test the water with it, apart from then it gets boxed up and put back in the cupbord at the top of the celler.

Mr Crowley............ i mean Tom lol

 

[Athena]

Hi there - awww, I know, the actual setting up is a bit of a pain. To be honest, there are hundreds of people out there who never both to do things correctly - I mean years ago nobody talked about fishless cycling or water testing...certainly not when I first began keeping fish. The majority tended to buy a tank, fill it with water, wait a week or two (no idea why but we did it cos we were told to by the LFS), plonk your fish in - and then deal with the various fish deaths that occurred over the following weeks - then having to restock etc... and, sad to say, this is still happening now.

Back then I didn't have a clue about the whole filter cycling process, or correct stock levels, or water changes and testing - yes, fishkeeping was easier then but costlier in the long run due to losing so many fish and having to replace them.

All I can say is don't lose heart... and the more work you put into getting it sorted now the more you will appreciate those fish in the months/years ahead. Besides, once your tank is cycled and everything has calmed down, the pleasure outweighs any little maintenance you have to do to keep it all ticking over nicely.

Now - to answer your question - no, don't clean your filter just yet. You are trying to build up your bacteria colony, so washing it now could be detrimental. I'd wait until your water stats are showing normal for a few weeks before you clean the filter.

And when you do it, you must use tank water in a bowl to clean the filter sponges - just a very light sloosh to remove excess debris. No need to wring it out and rinse till it looks clean otherwise you'll destroy your bacteria.

Bye for now - Athena

 

[vinylman]

tetra safestart, it is ment to make the water instantly ready to put fish in once you have set up the tank, how good it is i don't know

Safestart still exposes fish to Ammonia and Nitrites.

 

[waterdrop]

<...>
It's a difficult situation to be in when you have fish in an uncycled tank - you get caught in a bit of a catch 22 situation to be honest. We know that if you have a lot of fish in an uncycled tank there will no doubt be levels of ammonia present, which is harmful (deadly) to the fish, so we try to remove the ammonia through water changes.

But, in order for a filter to cycle properly it needs...ammonia - so removing it all doesn't give the bacteria much of an opportunity to grow. It feeds off ammonia so removing it's food source will starve the colony. You end up getting nowhere fast, unfortunately, and it is a slow, long-winded process to reach the stage where the filter has enough supply of bacteria to handle the bioload in the tank.

It's just a case of being very patient and stringent with your tank maintenance and testing for now.

Regards - Athena

Hi Athena,

Just wanted to comment on your post above and hope I'm not stepping on toes, as probably you were just trying to expain, etc. But the thing I wanted to comment on is that I believe the level of ammonia flow present in the tank in a fish-in cycling situation is really quite ideal from the viewpoint of the bacteria. Its easy for us to get in a mindset created by our dumping in 5ppm at a time during fishless and by our reading of "zero" from our ammonia testing kits, but of course there's never really a "zero" level of ammonia in a running aquarium with fish. Performing enough water changes to keep the water reading "zero" from a liquid test, even zero all the time, would not be bad from the bacterial standpoint at all! There's still going to be plenty of "food" in there for them. The fish-in process, although always undesirable from the fish standpoint, is about the same from a timing point-of-view as the fishless process, ie. it will take maybe 3-6 weeks on average or up to 2 months if a few things cause slow-downs.

Anyway, just making the "zero is not really zero" speech, because in a fish-in cycle its always great to get that stats as close to zero as possible and no need to worry about the bacteria. Having ammonia levels "visible" via our kits does not make bacteria grow faster, its often just the fact that we do the 5ppm thing to gauge colony sizing levels for full initial tank stocking that makes it seem that way. Anyway, sorry if I'm just re-stating the obvious!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Ozzy Ozborne]

Hi all,and thanks for all your help and advice.

i bought a Tetra water testing kit for Ammonia,Nitrite and PH and started last Friday with a 20% water change,which I have also done Sat and today-Sun

Results as follows:
Ammonia 1.5 each day-no changes at all ?
Nitrate <0.3 each day day
PH Range between 7.5-8.0 each day.

No more fish died though!
I also got a squeeze from my local supplier of filter medium which I put in the filter.
I work away from home (wife in charge) a few night so am only home wed,fri,sat and sun each week so will do water changes then,
Does all this sound ok and i am I doing it correct??
Thanks

Mike

NB I have got an air stone running,is this helpful ,and its on a timer with the light..............again is this ok?

 

[vinylman]

If Ammonia is really 1.5, then you're looking at water changes EVERY day - that figure MUST come down or you'll have no fish left, I'm afraid. 50% water changes, I'd say, then test again around 12 hours later. Any reading of Ammonia will permanently damage a fishes gills, shortening it's life.

 

[OldMan47]

If you will only be doing water changes, and probably testing, 4 days a week, the water changes will need to be lots bigger than 20%. I would start with 50% minimum for a tank that won't get attention every day.

 

[Ozzy Ozborne]

thanks
it looks like 1.5 on the colour scale but could be lower.........its hard to read it accuratley
i thought i would need some ammonia in to feed the bacteria?

 

[waterdrop]

*NO*, if you have fish in the tank then you must not worry about feeding the bacteria at all, they will get plenty of food. The "zero" reading from a liquid-reagent testing kit does not really mean there is no ammonia in the water, it simply means the testing level is too low to detect and that the water is now ok for the fish. The fish very much need this zero level or as close as one can get to it as possible during the fish-in cycling situation.

I agree with OM47, but would even start at 70% water changes if you can't do them every day and then see if you're able to maintain the central goal of fish-in cycling, which is that all readings for ammonia and nitrite(NO2) should not read above 0.25ppm for twice-daily tests, usually performed 12 hours apart from each other.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Ozzy Ozborne]

im learning fast !
does the air pump help at all...............is running with the lights?................or is it cosmetic?
thanks

 

[waterdrop]

Airpumps and lights don't have anything to do with a problem of testing and finding ammonia and/or nitrite(NO2) in your new tank.

Your problem is all about what we call "cycling" and you're in a "fish-in cycling situation" in your case.

Large and frequent water changes using correct water-changing techniques (correct amounts of a chemical that removed chlorine or chloramine (we call this "conditioner") and rough temperature-matching of the new tap water) are the critical aspects of this problem.

In a fish-in cycle, the bacteria will take on average a month to get to needed maturity (meaning somewhere between 3 weeks and 2 months usually, really) and all this time you'll have to be testing and changing water to keep ammonia and nitrite(NO2) always below 0.25ppm. This is why we work so hard on our beginner forum here to help people learn about "fishless" cycling prior to getting fish, because the "fish-in" cycling situation can be so difficult.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Ozzy Ozborne]

thanks for your help...................if it ends up with all the fish dying do i continue and revert to a "fishless" cycle?
Which fishwould you reccomend ?
I have got platties,mollies and guppies.................are these hardy enough?

thanks

 

[Jazzzz]

yes go fishless

A fishless cycle wil be much less stressful easier and much kinder to fish Do not replace fish as they die