Fantail Goldfish & Parasites

[Scowie]

I’m hoping someone can help me. I have 2 large fantail fish which I have had for approx 5 years. One has a swim bladder issue which I have been trying to sort for some time now. I stopped surface feeding and went to sinking pallets, no changes, changed food to peas only for many months, no change, then have tried Epson Salts, no change. I noticed that this fish was pooping stringy, long, clear stuff, so that lead me to parasites which I have never done before. After getting advice from specialist fish store I treated the tank with Flubendazole being very careful to follow the instructions exactly. No changes during the first 4 days. I did a 50% water change at this point and redosed the tank. Disaster. After a couple more days both ended up on bottom of tank covered in white slime. Panic stations. Performed another 50% water change and monitored for 24 hours. No change to fish. Still on bottom lethargic, not interested in food. Online researched and didn’t know if I should aquarium salt dip them so phoned my store for further information. They suggested adding Melafix which I have just completed 4 days of treatment. No improvement, if anything she’s worse and tilting on her side. Arrrrrrhhhh. I don’t know what to do next. I feel 4 days is long enough to see some sort of improvement. They both did eat a pea each this morning cause I got worried that they had no fuel onboard. The only thing positive is she’s no longer got a swim bladder issue - I think. What should I do? I’m gutted.

 

[GaryE]

Fantail goldfish are deformed. It's a hard thing for us to take in, but their body shape that we like often kills them. Their swim bladders are often affected, and a lot of them die young because of that. I wish it weren't so, but wishes don't count.

You've treated for parasites, so foot off the gas. Give the fish time to recover, if they can. No more medications, but heavy water changing. I would do 50% now, and as soon as you have time, 50% again, even tomorrow. Over about 3 weeks, I would do as many partial water changes as I had time and energy for, then I would settle into changing 50% weekly.

Melafix is what people suggest when they have no idea. It's a med for the owner, not the fish, to make you feel you're doing something. The active ingredient is a powerful anti-bacterial, but it is diluted to the point it's almost homeopathy. If it weren't diluted, it would kill the fish as well as any noxious bacteria.

If they had the nematodes Flubendazole treats, these wormlike parasites bite into the intestinal walls and when they are killed, leave behind wounds that take time to heal. Untreated, the nematodes kill the fish, but the risk of infection is there, and appetite is affected. Camallanus nematodes really hurt our fish. It takes time to recover. Clean water increases their chances, hence the heavy water changes with dechlorinated or chloramine treated water.

The wounds can also lead to fatal infections, unfortunately.

 

[Colin_T]

Pictures and video of the fish?
Upload videos to YouTube, then copy & paste the link here.
If you use a mobile phone to film the fish, hold it in landscape mode.

Deworming medications for fish should be done once a week for 3-4 weeks.

If the fish developed a cream/ white film over their head, body and fins after the second dose of medication, then you overdosed the tank and poisoned them. The best thing to do is a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. This will dilute the remaining medication and give the fish the best chance of recovering.

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True swim bladder problems in fish are rare but do occur. If a fish floats to the surface when it stops swimming, it can be a swim bladder issue or more likely, it has air trapped in its intestine. To test this you simply stop feeding dry food for a week and use frozen (but defrosted) or live food for a week. If the problem rectifies itself when the dry food is removed, then the problem is air in the intestine.

If a fish sinks to the bottom when it stops swimming, it is normally the swim bladder and the fish should be euthanised because there is no cure. Some fish are stupid and swallow gravel/ sand and it doesn't always come out the other end. This can also cause fish to sink when they stop swimming. However, it's quite rare for this to happen.

--------------------

To work out the volume of water in the tank:
measure length x width x height in cm.
divide by 1000.
= volume in litres.

When you measure the height, measure from the top of the substrate to the top of the water level.

If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove these before measuring the height of the water level so you get a more accurate water volume.

You can use a permanent marker to draw a line on the tank at the water level and put down how many litres are in the tank at that level.

There is a calculator/ converter in the "FishForum.net Calculator" under "Useful Links" at the top right of this page that will let you convert litres to gallons if you need it.

Calculator

Remove carbon from the filter before treating with chemicals or it will adsorb the medication and stop it working. You do not need to remove the carbon if you use salt.

 

[Scowie]

Fantail goldfish are deformed. It's a hard thing for us to take in, but their body shape that we like often kills them. Their swim bladders are often affected, and a lot of them die young because of that. I wish it weren't so, but wishes don't count.

You've treated for parasites, so foot off the gas. Give the fish time to recover, if they can. No more medications, but heavy water changing. I would do 50% now, and as soon as you have time, 50% again, even tomorrow. Over about 3 weeks, I would do as many partial water changes as I had time and energy for, then I would settle into changing 50% weekly.

Melafix is what people suggest when they have no idea. It's a med for the owner, not the fish, to make you feel you're doing something. The active ingredient is a powerful anti-bacterial, but it is diluted to the point it's almost homeopathy. If it weren't diluted, it would kill the fish as well as any noxious bacteria.

If they had the nematodes Flubendazole treats, these wormlike parasites bite into the intestinal walls and when they are killed, leave behind wounds that take time to heal. Untreated, the nematodes kill the fish, but the risk of infection is there, and appetite is affected. Camallanus nematodes really hurt our fish. It takes time to recover. Clean water increases their chances, hence the heavy water changes with dechlorinated or chloramine treated water.

The wounds can also lead to fatal infections, unfortunately.

Thank you so much for this very informative information. It is much appreciated x

 

[Scowie]

Th

Pictures and video of the fish?
Upload videos to YouTube, then copy & paste the link here.
If you use a mobile phone to film the fish, hold it in landscape mode.

Deworming medications for fish should be done once a week for 3-4 weeks.

If the fish developed a cream/ white film over their head, body and fins after the second dose of medication, then you overdosed the tank and poisoned them. The best thing to do is a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. This will dilute the remaining medication and give the fish the best chance of recovering.

--------------------

True swim bladder problems in fish are rare but do occur. If a fish floats to the surface when it stops swimming, it can be a swim bladder issue or more likely, it has air trapped in its intestine. To test this you simply stop feeding dry food for a week and use frozen (but defrosted) or live food for a week. If the problem rectifies itself when the dry food is removed, then the problem is air in the intestine.

If a fish sinks to the bottom when it stops swimming, it is normally the swim bladder and the fish should be euthanised because there is no cure. Some fish are stupid and swallow gravel/ sand and it doesn't always come out the other end. This can also cause fish to sink when they stop swimming. However, it's quite rare for this to happen.

--------------------

To work out the volume of water in the tank:
measure length x width x height in cm.
divide by 1000.
= volume in litres.

When you measure the height, measure from the top of the substrate to the top of the water level.

If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove these before measuring the height of the water level so you get a more accurate water volume.

You can use a permanent marker to draw a line on the tank at the water level and put down how many litres are in the tank at that level.

There is a calculator/ converter in the "FishForum.net Calculator" under "Useful Links" at the top right of this page that will let you convert litres to gallons if you need it.

Calculator

Remove carbon from the filter before treating with chemicals or it will adsorb the medication and stop it working. You do not need to remove the carbon if you use salt.

Thank you so much for this detailed response. I very much appreciate your time and sharing your experience with me. Yes I definitely overdosed the tank. I have now done two 50% water changes and will continue with this. I had wondered if part of this was being caused by parasitic die off. It’s the same with people and animals when you have a heavy parasitic load. I will keep my fingers crossed for a full recovery. Thank you again for the reassurance.

 

[Colin_T]

It's unusual for fish to have issues with parasite die off after being treated. On rare ocassions when fish get dewormed, they might have issues due to some intestinal worms refusing to let go of the fish's intestine and damaging it. Also if fish are really heavily infested with worms they might die from lack of blood and bleed in their intestine when the worms have been expelled. But these are very rare. In general when fish are treated correctly, they don't have issues with parasite die off.

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Most aquarium fish die from poor water quality, overdosing medications or plant fertilisers, or diseases associated with stress, overcrowding and an unclean tank.

If fish get a cream, white or grey film over their head, body and fins, it is a water quality issue. The cream, white or grey colouration is caused by the fish increasing the clear mucous film that have over them. The more the fish is stressed by something in the water, the more mucous that is produced and the darker the film becomes. It starts out clear, then goes cream, white and in bad cases, grey.

If you see a cream, white or grey film over the entire fish, do a big (75%) water change and gravel clean the substrate immediately, and continue doing this each day for a week. You should also test the water quality for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH to make sure they aren't causing the problem.

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If you see a cream, white or grey patch on part of the fish but the rest of the fish is normal, that is usually caused by an external protozoan parasite like Costia, Chilodonella or Trichodina. These parasites are most frequently found in dirty tanks or overcrowded tanks. Doing a big water change, gravel cleaning the substrate, and cleaning the filter, on a regular basis helps to limit these types of infections. if the tank is well maintained and cleaned regularly, and the fish show cream, white or grey patches, then you treat with salt or Malachite Green. But do a big water change and gravel clean first and clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks and go from there.

 

[Scowie]

It's unusual for fish to have issues with parasite die off after being treated. On rare ocassions when fish get dewormed, they might have issues due to some intestinal worms refusing to let go of the fish's intestine and damaging it. Also if fish are really heavily infested with worms they might die from lack of blood and bleed in their intestine when the worms have been expelled. But these are very rare. In general when fish are treated correctly, they don't have issues with parasite die off.

-------------------

Most aquarium fish die from poor water quality, overdosing medications or plant fertilisers, or diseases associated with stress, overcrowding and an unclean tank.

If fish get a cream, white or grey film over their head, body and fins, it is a water quality issue. The cream, white or grey colouration is caused by the fish increasing the clear mucous film that have over them. The more the fish is stressed by something in the water, the more mucous that is produced and the darker the film becomes. It starts out clear, then goes cream, white and in bad cases, grey.

If you see a cream, white or grey film over the entire fish, do a big (75%) water change and gravel clean the substrate immediately, and continue doing this each day for a week. You should also test the water quality for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH to make sure they aren't causing the problem.

-----

If you see a cream, white or grey patch on part of the fish but the rest of the fish is normal, that is usually caused by an external protozoan parasite like Costia, Chilodonella or Trichodina. These parasites are most frequently found in dirty tanks or overcrowded tanks. Doing a big water change, gravel cleaning the substrate, and cleaning the filter, on a regular basis helps to limit these types of infections. if the tank is well maintained and cleaned regularly, and the fish show cream, white or grey patches, then you treat with salt or Malachite Green. But do a big water change and gravel clean first and clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks and go from there.

Hi Colin, my tank is 120L Juwel, with 2 fantails and a bristlenose pleco . I do between 30-40% water charges every 4-5 days using a vacuum to suction the gravel. My water parameters have been very stable as a result with 0 ammonia, nitrite 0, nitrate 5-10 varys and Ph usually sits at 6.6. I have oxygen weed and a floating plant plus large piece of aquarium wood. I change the media filters on time every time. The only thing that changed was the month leading up to dosing for parasites, I had added 1/8 of a teaspoon for every 19L so 6x1/8. This didn’t seem to make any difference so at the next 2 water changes I did 50%. Then I dosed my tank with Flubendazole and 4 days later repeated this. Both the fish shop and instructions on the bag said you could do this. The only thing which I did differently when they were already on the bottom and not well was using Source Water (9L the rest is very good quality filtered water which is what I have used for years) which is really from an aqua duct 256m below the ground and the purest most healing water available. What I didn’t factor in was the PH of 9. So when I tested the following day this is what it was. However they’ve had two 50% water changes since and the PH is back to 6.6. They’re still pretty unhappy today, hiding, stressed. I’ve had these guys for 5-6 years, maybe longer and never thought to do a parasite cleanse yet I’m vigilant with all my other animals and the humans in the house too. My poor babies. I feel terrible for them.

 

[Scowie]

Hi Colin, my tank is 120L Juwel, with 2 fantails and a bristlenose pleco . I do between 30-40% water charges every 4-5 days using a vacuum to suction the gravel. My water parameters have been very stable as a result with 0 ammonia, nitrite 0, nitrate 5-10 varys and Ph usually sits at 6.6. I have oxygen weed and a floating plant plus large piece of aquarium wood. I change the media filters on time every time. The only thing that changed was the month leading up to dosing for parasites, I had added 1/8 of a teaspoon for every 19L so 6x1/8. This didn’t seem to make any difference so at the next 2 water changes I did 50%. Then I dosed my tank with Flubendazole and 4 days later repeated this. Both the fish shop and instructions on the bag said you could do this. The only thing which I did differently when they were already on the bottom and not well was using Source Water (9L the rest is very good quality filtered water which is what I have used for years) which is really from an aqua duct 256m below the ground and the purest most healing water available. What I didn’t factor in was the PH of 9. So when I tested the following day this is what it was. However they’ve had two 50% water changes since and the PH is back to 6.6. They’re still pretty unhappy today, hiding, stressed. I’ve had these guys for 5-6 years, maybe longer and never thought to do a parasite cleanse yet I’m vigilant with all my other animals and the humans in the house too. My poor babies. I feel terrible for them.

Oh shoot I missed a bit - Epsom Salts was what I tried.

 

[Colin_T]

You don't want to change the filter media unless it's blocked up and falling apart. The filter media houses beneficial bacteria that helps keep the water clean. If you replace the media, you get rid of the good bacteria and can have problems with ammonia and nitrite in the water.

Filter media should be cleaned (squeezed out) in a bucket of tank water once a month. The media is re-used in the filter and the bucket of dirty water can be poured on the garden outside.

If the media starts to break down (fall apart) you can replace it but try to only replace one piece and wait a few months before replacing any more.

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If you want to use Epsom salts you use it in a separate container of water and put the fish in it for 15-30 minutes before putting the fish back in the main tank. The problem with moving sick fish is you can injure them when lifting them out of water if they have internal problems. Chasing them around the aquarium doesn't help them either.

The dose rate for Epsom salts is usually around 1 heaped tablespoon for every 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. Epsom salts usually need to be dissolved in hot tap water and then left to cool down before being used.

Don't add Epsom salts to an aquarium unless you are trying to increase the magnesium level in the water.

Some brands of Epsom salts have perfumes in them that can poison the fish. Epsom salt used for fish should contain magnesium sulphate (sulfate) and nothing else.

 

[Essjay]

You don't want to change the filter media unless it's blocked up and falling apart.

The reason manufacturers tell you to change the media is to make money for them.

Since it's a Juwel tank you probably have sponges and maybe cirax. Juwel blue sponges can be kept until they go onto holes or won't go back to shape after squeezing; they'll last for years. Black sponges are impregnated with carbon which isn't needed routinely. Black sponges can be swapped for blue sponges. If you have a green nitrate sponge, the consensus is that it doesn't do anything for nitrate so treat it like a blue sponge.
The white pad is the only thing which needs changing regularly. It's first in the direction of water flow so it gets full of bits and it won't wash properly. Rather than buy Juwel white pads it is cheaper to buy a length of filter wool/floss from a pond supply shop or eBay/Amazon and cut it to size.

 

[Scowie]

You don't want to change the filter media unless it's blocked up and falling apart. The filter media houses beneficial bacteria that helps keep the water clean. If you replace the media, you get rid of the good bacteria and can have problems with ammonia and nitrite in the water.

Filter media should be cleaned (squeezed out) in a bucket of tank water once a month. The media is re-used in the filter and the bucket of dirty water can be poured on the garden outside.

If the media starts to break down (fall apart) you can replace it but try to only replace one piece and wait a few months before replacing any more.

---------------------

If you want to use Epsom salts you use it in a separate container of water and put the fish in it for 15-30 minutes before putting the fish back in the main tank. The problem with moving sick fish is you can injure them when lifting them out of water if they have internal problems. Chasing them around the aquarium doesn't help them either.

The dose rate for Epsom salts is usually around 1 heaped tablespoon for every 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. Epsom salts usually need to be dissolved in hot tap water and then left to cool down before being used.

Don't add Epsom salts to an aquarium unless you are trying to increase the magnesium level in the water.

Some brands of Epsom salts have perfumes in them that can poison the fish. Epsom salt used for fish should contain magnesium sulphate (sulfate) and nothing else.

Gosh Colin, I have had fish since I was a kid (in my fifties now) and I have learnt more from you than everything else added together over all those years. Wow about the filter media. I’ve always been one to read all the instructions before I do anything so of course followed the manufacturers instructions to change a) white wool weekly, carbon monthly, green nitrate sponge 2 monthly and blue bioplus sponge 3 monthly. But you’re saying don’t, just wash them monthly in the tank water. Yes we definitely reuse the water in our garden Gee Colin. You just saved me money which I don’t have a lot of, thank you! Now my inner cynic comes out and of course the manufacturer is going to say replace, replace, replace. I should have seen that. Next thing - darn, Epsom salts. I used ES that I already had. It very well may have been perfumed Such a different ratio to what the fish shop told me. Lesson learnt there. Okay final question - what is the humanest way to put your fish to sleep. Swallowing hard now. Lost the gold one today and the other is looking bad.

 

[Colin_T]

If you have a carbon filter cartridge you can throw that away after a few months and replace it with a sponge. Carbon isn't normally necessary in aquariums unless you have heavy metals in the water and if you have that, you should filter the water through carbon before using it in the tank. Or get a new water source that is clean. You can buy sponges for different brands of filter. Get one that is the same size or slightly bigger than the carbon cartridge and swap them over. The sponge will last years and gets cleaned in a bucket of tank water each month.

I'm not sure what is in the green nitrate sponge but if it has additives (white, black or other coloured granules), you could probably swap that out for a sponge too.

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Most people use clove oil to euthanise a fish. You can buy it from chemists (pharmacies) or online. Some supermarkets sell it too. You put the fish in a container of tank water. If possible have an airstone bubbling away gently in the bucket of water with the fish. You add a few drops of clove oil and wait a minute, then add a few more drops and wait. Continue doing that until the fish rolls onto its side and stops moving. It's not dead at this stage but is asleep. You can then put the bucket of water with the fish in, into the freezer and leave it to freeze solid. Have a lid on the bucket so you don't spill fish water in the freezer.

Clove oil works best when it's mixed with alcohol before being added to the tank. However, I can't find the link to it so just use the clove oil without alcohol. If you start a new thread on the forum someone might know more about the alcohol part.

The other way to kill a fish is whack it on the head or cut its head off but those both get messy so clove oil is the most commonly used method on this forum.

Before you kill the fish, check the tank water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH, and do a big water change and gravel clean to see if that helps.

 

[Essjay]

For information only -
Colin, this is what Juwel put in their filters as nitrate sponges (the green sponge).

Nitrax

JUWEL Nitrax is a biological filter medium to break nitrates down in your aquarium. It reduces the growth of algae and promotes the vitality of your plants and fish.

www.juwel-aquarium.co.uk

Most people who have it in their filters reckon it doesn't do anything for nitrate.

The rest of the sponges are blue (both coarse and fine) and black which is impregnated with carbon and half the thickness of the blue and green.